Went to the strip, too slow????

We finally had a night where it didn't rain for the street drags at Brainerd Intl. This was the first time out for my new GS. I was a little bummed when I saw my first time slip. I knocked it down a half second or so but still my best was 14.58 @ 98mph. I was hoping to at least break into the 13's

This is what I have. '70 455 (SF code Riv) with a stock block and heads. I have headers, a GS113 cam, Performer intake, Holley 750, HEI with MSD "ultimate" kit (no box, no ext coil), full 2 1/2 inch Flowmaster exhaust, TH400 with 2000-3000 JW switch pitch, 3.42 10 bolt posi, on 275/60-15 street tires. The car is full wieght

I know the tires are a weak link. My fastest run was made with a short, tire cleaning burnout, and a launch in low stall run lightly against the brakes. The car was super consistant and pulled smoothly. I was shifting right around 5000-5500 rpm.

This just seems awfully slow compared to what I see on this board. What can I do? I was beat by a '71 Hurst Olds covertible. o No:

 

Your biggest problem with the setup is the 750 carb. Buicks like BIG carbs. That is close to a setup I ran about 10 years ago and I was running consistant 12.70's.
Find an origional BB carb and rebuild it. You won't believe the difference!:eek2:

 

Brent,

Did you have to "peddle it" a lot off the line? Was there a lot of tire spin? I'd agree the carb is too small, and I'd also be looking at the timing to make sure you have 32+ total timing.

How are the Wed night street drags? My brother and I will be coming down to Brainerd for the Musclecar Shootout in Sept and saw they have street drags on the 3rd. If they'll let us camp at the track we may come down Wed and stay until Sunday.

 

What was your 60' times ??

Dont be discouraged - this was your first time out and it takes time, practice and patience to "Dial-In" YOUR setup.

 

Gee, I've never heard anyone say "Went to the strip, too fast????" (except in regards to needing a rollbar installed)...

Anyhow, when I had a similar setup, I used to run 14.7 @ 93. I didn't have the s-p or the GS113 (I had a TA212), and I had 2.93, so that sounds about right for those changes. Traction was always a major issue for me too, 60' times were 2.1-ish.

-Bob Cunningham

 

not to steal the thread, but Bob:

how'd you like the TA 212 cam? How did it idle?

 

So we don't hijack the thread, I'll PM you.

-Bob

 

Ken, The street drags have been a lot of fun. Before the Buick, I took my Porsche 928 over there. I ran 13.8 @ 104 in that, I was hoping to take a step forward with the big Buick, not back The last couple have been rained out. They have another one scheduled for next Tuesday. Last night there were about 90 cars and a totally open format. The lines were generally pretty short, usually only a 5-10 minute wait for a run. I bet I did 8-9 runs, I will have to count my slips. BIR has dramatically improved the camping facilities recently. It is a pretty darn nice place to camp now and I think they are very flexible about when you come in. They still had sites open during the show and go, so there are plenty of sites all the way from tenting to full hook-ups.

My launches in low stall were pretty good. It would spin but I could keep it floored. My high stall launches I had to back out of some, it even got a little sideways once.

I will bolt up a bigger carb and maybe try a set of BFG drag radials. On some of my runs I would have a pretty good tick, like a collapsed lifter, at the end. By the time I was back in the pit and got the hood up it was back to normal. It is my own stupid fault I suspect, I have Rhoads lifters on the exhausts. Please don't ask why I will pull the intake and put TA's in there.

Anybody had any luck with the BFG tires? Is there something else street legal that would work well on the 7" rims? I was going to try 275/60's. Would the 295/50's fit/work?

Thanks for the replies guys:grin:

 

Brent, did you talk to the guy with the H/O at all?

I'm not a dragway star, all I ever did there was drive a tow vehicle, but almost a 100mph and a mid 14 sec. pass would make me happy, first time out.

I wonder if the guy with the H/O just made more concessions for speed than you did: small fuel cell, lighter wheels, aluminum or fibreglass bumpers, close to zero toe in, 'glass hood, trunklind, lightweight seats, etc. he might have had much more gear than you too, who knows. I had a 750 AFB on my 455 not too long ago. I swapped it for an 800, and it was a big seat of the pants change. the q-jet was designed for your application, the Holley is a general purpose carb and unless you spend some time tuning it for your application, I wonder if you'll ever see the results you would with an 800 cfm Buick Q-jet. I remember mine fondly, it was like an extra tranny kickdown when I opened the secondaries. I have an Edelbrock Performer 800 now, and among other things, it sloshes fuel horribly.

 

I didn't talk to him this time but I have in the past, and looked over his car. It is pretty stock except exhaust. It does have a factory glass hood and I am not sure of the gearing. It's not like his car was exceptionally fast, just that he beat me and I certainly have more mods. he even had a passenger in the car, so I doubt it was a wieght issue.

What about coolant temps? What kind of temp do you guys shoot for? Mine runs right around 200*. For a modern car that seems pretty normal but wouldn't I be better off with a lower temp stat? I suspect it has a 195 in there, though I don't know for sure.

 

Run as much initial timing as you can, and get the curve in early around 2500 rpm's with a total of 32-33 deg.
There is a lot of power to be had in the enging timing alone, and its just about free too........

 

If a 750 is too thin of a straw for a 455 to suck through, what is the recommendation? I have a 4bbl off a 72 455 motor, is the cfm more on this carb? Many guys run extremely well with quadrajets from what I've been told, not needing to change brands till the real high horsepower comes in. I know the older quads were a bit small and that's why the 71 or 72 and up carbs are more desireable with their higher cfm rating..maybe an extra 30 or 50 cfm I guess.

 

Don't get discoraged!:af:

The first time I brought my car to the track it ran in the high 14's.
After a few passes and playing with the timing I got it down into the high 13's.:beer

I don't think it is a problem with the setup other than the carb. It is a case of getting everything to work together with this setup!

Good luck:TU:

 

The 72' carb might be a 800cfm, which would be just right (do a search to ID as an 800)
Those carbs should flow plenty for you, I really like the 800 q-jet, very responsive and flows well.

 

Slower than he wants..

Brent -

You have decent power, 98 mph for the first time out is respectable. You never did post your sixty foot times - fill us in on those. I think you can pick up quite a bit on your ET by optimizing your start.

First thing I would suggest is to work on your driving technique. Try launching at different rpms and try different shift points. Usually a street tire car launches best by minimizing the shock to the tires to avoid meltdown. Usually you are better off shifting a BB Buick earlier rather than later. You'd be surprised at the times that have been run without going over 5000 rpm.

I normally stage shallow (just barely turn on the "Staged" light) and leave on the third amber - just roll the power on, don't stomp on the gas. If you feel any tire spin at all get out of the throttle, but you've probably already wasted the run. By the time I feel or hear tire spin, I've "achieved" about a 2.40 60' time, and that means bad things for ET.

With practice, on a well prepped track, you should be able to run pretty consistant 2.0 sixty footers. Any improvement in sixty foot time equals twice the improvement on the 1/4 mile, so if you pick up 3 tenths at the starting line, you'll get to the finish six tenths quicker and you'll be right where you hoped to be time wise.

Another observation - you need to really let your car cool down if you want to minimize ET. You said you made 8 or 9 runs the other night, usuall you would need to cool the car down 30-45 minutes to get best performance. You'll just keep slowing down if you hot lap the car - something to think about.

 

I don't have the slips handy, I will check them out and post them this afternoon. I can "borrow" a Holley 870 street avenger carb for testing purposes. I have the Q-Jet but, if it is original to the engine it would be a '70. Is that going to flow enough? Is there and easy way to check the carb for cfm? What about converting it to elec choke? They are having drags again next Tues so I don't have time to have the Q-jet gone through by then.

I have ordered a lower temp t-stat, new lifters from TA, drag radials and I will try the new carb.

I think you are right on John with the starting line gains. If I could get it to hook up right away, I think I would have much better times. Last night I figured it would be fun to burn off the "Wal Mart special" tires on the car. I even did an extended burn out for my kids. They wanted to see the smoke:grin: It made for pretty slippery tires though, my slowest run of the night.

 

Brent -

Don't feel so bad. I ran basically as stock a Stage1 as you could get, and I hadn't raced before. First time down the track.

Being extremely nervous (with the staging, lights, etc...), I was only able to make two passes - a 14.501 and a 14.505, both about only 95 mph. Here is a link containing the complete results of the two runs.

I attribute it to my inexperience with the lights, my nerves, and 'babying' my car (shifting gears like granny). I've also discovered my OEM exhaust system was extremely constricting and it was recently replaced with a 2.5'' mandral bent system with x-pipe. :Brow:

98 MPH for a Buick? That sounds like a low 14/high 13 timeslip with good traction. Good move on starting with the tires. I also agree to get a bigger carb

 

If you're talking about a Q-Jet then check out this thread. It will show you how to identify an 800cfm Q-Jet carb.

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15065&highlight=identify

 

OK, I have the slips in my hand gentlemen. 7 runs between 5:30 and 8pm. They are all 14.5-14.7 @ 94-95.5mph except the one where I REALLY heated the tires. 60 foot times on my last three runs were 2.35-2.41. Two of those were using high stall in the switch pitch to get off the line. The last one a 2.38 in low stall (~1800) run against the brakes to about 1200 or so and just flooring it.

I get another shot on Tuesday, not much time when you have to wait for mail order parts I should have time to switch carbs, thermostat and tires, I don't think I will get to the lifters or the trans-go shift kit in time. Those are the proposed changes.

Meanwhile I have been browsing JW's engines, wondering just how fast I wanna go $ :laugh:

 

How were your recation times? That is a huge deciding factor on overall ET. If you can get your reaction times into the .500's, then you'll make some decent passes. Go on the 2nd yellow! Thanks to LARRY70GS, I ran my best time at the track in Milan last week:beer

BTW, I've never heard of a 71 H/O...have I missed something? Or was it a 72?:grin: o No: My neighbor had a 72 HO vert....awesome car....very awesome.