I tend to agree with Troy, but I don't think it's a religious issue ;~) Mostly I say make the car LOOK the way it should from the factory. If the engine was built to Stage 1 spec, that's fine, but you don't need to advertise that. The car will NEVER be a stage 1 car, so leave the badges and stickers off IMO. Lots of incorrect sticker on super nice cars, easy to fix, yes, but why?
To reference an earlier post in this thread, you stated your car doesn't have that "throw you back in the seat" feel, it was not properly built to 1970 stage one specs. Even with your 2.93 geared rear end, unless you have slicks, that car should smoke the tires off it at a rolling 30 mph, and after you get past the "no traction" speed, 50+ mph, should keep you firmly planted with the grin getting bigger and bigger the faster you go. I suspect you may have a low compression 455...
Appreciate your thoughts on show judging, Duane. It's for this reason that I keep another air cleaner top without the Stage 1 emblem. Except for the chrome valve covers it's all GS455 non-Stage 1 and I have the red valve covers if I need to get real serious.
We judge the GSX’s the same way….:.however for the GSX’s only we check the ID plates on the firewall to verify they were made at the correct plant and during the correct time periods. Other then that, as long as everything is correct we judge it as a GSX. The judges are not there to authenticate a car, but simply to judge it as displayed……..but if it’s not correct, and we can tell, then points come off. Duane
All I know is that John Chamberlain is the original engine builder (circa 2011 or 2012). We ALL know that John builds super strong 455 engines. However, we found that the previous owner (circa 2015) had made some piston changes from the borescope pics I got from my mechanic. I sent borescope pics to Larry70GS in an effort to identify what CR these pistons are and the manufacturer, this is what Larry had to say. From Larry70GS: Here's the bottom line, unless you are willing to take a head off and measure everything, you'll never be sure of what the compression ratio is. Pistons may be rated at a compression ratio, but that does not mean they will produce that compression ratio in any engine. Aftermarket pistons typically sit below the deck at TDC. This is certainly true of pistons that were produced years ago. I highly doubt whether you have anywhere near to 11:1. It is more likely that it is 9.5:1 or so. I have a 1998 Kenne Belle Catalog. These may be the pistons. From Me: The Static compression check I had done was outstanding, showed an average of 180 psi for all pistons. Tells me this engine is in good shape also had a lead-down done and it too was outstanding. I'm not going to pull the heads until I have to do a valve job, the true CR it will continue to be a mystery for the time being. You are most likely correct, a lower compression then the Standard Stage 1 455 engine would explain the current lack of power I'm experiencing. The car is still fun to drive. Vet (Navy)
Hi Duane. Questions for you. I have NOT been to a show yet, when I do, I can expect the following to be deducted on my GS455 Buick. (1) Points deducted for GSX mirrors. (2) Points deducted for Bucket seats. (3) Points deducted for Console & horseshoe floor shifter. (3) Points deducted for Deluxe interior found on Stage 1 ONLY cars (or GSX). (4) Points deducted for Dakota dash gages. (5) Points deducted for Aftermarket A/C. Is this correct? How many points for each non-Buick equipment? Thanks, VET (Navy)
For a 70 non-GSX, You would get deductions for the GSX mirrors, the aftermarket gauges, and aftermarket AC. As long as the interior is year correct the judges do not look to see if that style interior was original to the car. Again they are not looking at it like they are going to purchase the car, Also, the number of points deducted would depend on the values assigned to those particular things (on the judging sheets) and how lenient they are that day. Now this is how it would be judged at a BCA meet or GSCA Concours class. Other shows may do things differently. Duane PS, Your picture does not show “GSX” style body mirrors on the car, but does have red-lines, and if they are 15” tires, you would get deductions for that too.
Some recent pics. Duane, thank you for the information. I know our little local shows are not as strick on the details. Vet (Navy)
for some reason I like a GS with less options as well. You’re spot on here, rare with less options. As you probably know my Reynolds car has basically zero options except for 2 that wouldn’t hinder performance and of course 1 with the Stage1 option. Tint, rally (think that’s the right name) Steering wheel. That’s it. Radio delete as well. I’m kind of ignorant with some things regarding this. Like your 4-speed was an option? Then that has to make the T-400 as standard . all though it is surprisingly very easy wheeling mine without power steering, think who ever ordered your GS with power steering because of the 4-speed was wise….
Vet- safe to say the majority of us believe that would be fine. And don’t want to steel your thread. Just have a question for Duane. Wouldn’t a radio delete car be an SCO?
Guy, I don't remember but, Gary Foster's Silver car was originally bought by a Service Man that was stationed in Germany and wanted to listen to American music, so he bought the radio delete and put in an aftermarket 8-track or Tape player in the car when new. I have the build sheet for that car somewhere and could check. It might have SCO on the Build sheet. I looked up Gary Fosters build sheet and it has nothing written in the space for the radio (it was left blank) and has NO SCO info at the bottom, so it was a regular production vehicle. Vet, After looking at the current pictures, at the shows, You would also get nailed for the headrest covers on the bucket seat headrests, the lack of GS door panel emblems, what looks like the lack of carpet on the kick panels (70 Skylark/GS cars with the deluxe interiors had carpeted kick panels), and possibly the window cranks. It's hard for me to see from the pics but, if the cranks have silver, instead of clear plastic handles on the ends, that would be incorrect. The front door panel armrests look like the standard 12" variety, not the 16" ones for the Deluxe interiors and do not have the chrome strips in them, so more points would be deducted. I also can't tell if you have the courtesy lights in the interior sail panels. Cars with the Deluxe/Custom interiors had the courtesy lights in the sail panels and under the dash, so if you have a single dome light at the roof, that would also be wrong. At this point, even though it is a beautiful car, and without looking at the rims to see if they have the 70 style offsets, or looking under the hood, your car would most likely get knocked out of the Gold, due to all the changes from what was available for the 70 model year. I see lots of cars done like this and brought to the shows. I sometimes refer to them as "in-between" cars, where they have pieces of one package and pieces of another package, but are not one way or the other. Often, if the owners are interested in getting a Gold Award, they will take their judging sheets, give the judges or me a call, and will fix a bunch of things so when they go back the following year, they can get a Gold. It really depends on what they are interested in doing with their cars. Duane
Duane here are my replies and questions. Vet, After looking at the current pictures, at the shows, You would also get nailed for the headrest covers on the bucket seat headrests. Is that because they are covers? the lack of GS door panel emblems, I have them just haven't installed them yet, got them from Todd. what looks like the lack of carpet on the kick panels (70 Skylark/GS cars with the deluxe interiors had carpeted kick panels), I bought the door panels and entire interior from Legendary. This being my first Buick, I just went with the catalog and what Legendary recommended/offered. So are you saying Legendary didn't replicate the interior correctly? and possibly the window cranks. It's hard for me to see from the pics but, if the cranks have silver, instead of clear plastic handles on the ends, that would be incorrect. The window cranks are clear, they appear silver due to the light reflection in the photos. The front door panel armrests look like the standard 12" variety, not the 16" ones for the Deluxe interiors and do not have the chrome strips in them, so more points would be deducted. When I checked with Legendary, the 16" one's ONLY come in Black so I didn't feel confident I could color match them to the Metallic Blue (121). So, I kept the original Restoration 12" armrests and added new metallic blue pads to these armrests. I also can't tell if you have the courtesy lights in the interior sail panels. Cars with the Deluxe/Custom interiors had the courtesy lights in the sail panels and under the dash, so if you have a single dome light at the roof, that would also be wrong. I didn't know this was included in the deluxe interior; the dome light is in my Buick. My GS does have the courtesy lights under dash. At this point, even though it is a beautiful car, and without looking at the rims to see if they have the 70 style offsets, or looking under the hood, your car would most likely get knocked out of the Gold, due to all the changes from what was available for the 70 model year. I see lots of cars done like this and brought to the shows. I sometimes refer to them as "in-between" cars, where they have pieces of one package and pieces of another package, but are not one way or the other. Often, if the owners are interested in getting a Gold Award, they will take their judging sheets, give the judges or me a call, and will fix a bunch of things so when they go back the following year, they can get a Gold. I'm NOT that interested in a GOLD award. I love my GS the way it is. It's ALL GOLD to me, that's all that counts for me. It really depends on what they are interested in doing with their cars. Additional pics. Vet (Navy) Duane
With regard to Vet's car, is the steering wheel Ok? Or was there a blue cushion grip wheel and horn button that matched that interior when it was new? Just asking... Note: I correct the name from Guy to Vet after Brad pointed out my error below.
Huh. No there wasn’t. And the one that came with it was the rally one and matched the low miles (1,676 miles) shape wise. I did come across some blue overspray on some of the ribbon/piping on the back interior side panels. And now that you mentioned it, I think a Mr. Kent ( think that was his name) had it painted blue at one time. I know Dave Johnson had it painted the correct white. Pretty sure about all of that history anyway. The whole interior was correct when I got it. Everything matched cowl tag and Slone docs. Plain base interior. But Duh. Never put two and two together… that’s why the blue over spray. But why would he change to a blue steering wheel and leave everything the original black? Hence the over spray. The interior code is 128. Max- how did you know about the blue? I’ve learned about it a couple years ago…the guy sent me pics. Kinda all makes sense now! It did come with a box full of extra parts, but. Mainly old race parts seat belts and such.
