I am desprate for street traction on my low 12's GS. The 28x12.5-15 ET Steets will burn until the soft front springs extend. Tazzo says 60 foot is 2.01 on concrete. Here are 5 things I am considering. 1. TA no-hop bars 2. Dick miller no-hop adjustable i/c bars 3.Lakewood lower bars with adjustable snubber 4. Southside/jegs lower bars 5. HR Parts sway bar Please advise
The TA bars would be cheapest and easiest since they use the stock control arms, I believe. A stock rear sway bar will help here. The Dick Miller bars are a bit more expensive, but the extra adjustability is nice. Probably your best bet here. I have these on my '72 GS, running mid 10's. Don't waste your money on the Lakewood "slapper" bars. Southside lower bars can work but tend to be more violent due to a higher IC. Might be fine on a 12 sec ride, though. The HR Parts bar works great from what I've heard. I think you need to get the IC and other things right to really take advantage of it, though. Just my opinions. Have fun.
my combo i have competition engineering 3 way adjustable drag shocks on all 4 corners. fronts are set on the middle click, rears full soft. airbags in rear springs, left 6 psi, right 9. southside machine lower "lift" bars replacing the lower rear control arms. 3.40 gear ratio,detroit locker. 315/60/15 bfg drag radials, always hook at 18 lbs. car only runs 13.20s, 104, so i have less power than you do, but i am also using harder tires. this car doesnt spin even half a turn once the tires are heated some. good luck.
ps-wheels? what size wheels are you using? the wider the wheel, the flatter the tire sits on the pavement. i use 10 inchers, 9s fit better and can be special ordered from weld but are a little more expensive. (not that the 10s were cheap) but the 10s are tougher to fit inside stock wheelwells.
Modified Buick Wheel My wheels are 15" Buick that have been widened 1" on the inside ( now 8" ). This allowed me to use a 1972 Skylark 8.5 rearend which is wider than the original 67 rear. This combination centered the tires so perfectly, I only had to roll the lnner finder to prevent rubbing. A wider wheel would expand the sidewall into the frame/fender area. IF I can improve traction , I can go a size smaller tire for a better footprint on the ground . I already have a 7/8" rear swaybar and air bags. I have also tried different drag tires and 100's of burnouts. Got a 1.85 60" one time with 3.42 and s/p 3000 converter at the track with vht Bowling Green, Ky.
good info with that info then, i would reccomend the southside machine bars-they work excellent on my car and cured what ills i stillhad as i was working mine out. i did hear they went out of business though, so you may have to scrounge for a set. they do alter the way the car rides, slightly harsher and they will clunk a little on extreme driveways or crubside entrances.
You said "Street traction".......... No low 12 sec car will hook consistantly on the street,Too many variables. I have 2 friends that I have helped with their combo's,One is a 72 Chevelle that is running 10.40's on 10.5x29.5 slicks with mid to low 1.4 60 ft.'s All this car is uses in addition to stock(And I mean stock) rear suspension is the HR Parts anti-roll bar. The second is a 72 Skylark that runs 11.40s on 29x10 Hoosier QT Pros and goes mid to low 1.5 60 ft.'s. His car has nothing but an airbag in the right rear spring. Point is,You can waste alot of money on bolt on pieces that won't work.(Especially on the street).Been there,Done that. On a high 11,low 12 car I would say the stock stuff is good as long as it is in good working order.My own car went a 1.67 60ft on the ET streets you have when it was running 12.20's..... Believe me when I say.The biggest key to a good 60ft. is the converter.
my converter My converter is a 20 year old Kenny-Bell switch pitch . MY 67 was always 2-4 tenths and 2-4 mph slower than similar GS's with c118 cam and similar setup's. What converter is in the 72 Skylark you mentioned?
Gary He uses the TCI 10'' known as the "Street Fighter"....... They're a decent coverter for a reasonable price(about $300=/-). His car is on the edge as far that converter goes.....But that is what I had in my car while running 12.20's
I also had a severe traction problem with my 11 second skylark . The solution was Southside replacement rear control arms(not the lift bars), I added a 7/8" G.M. rear swaybar and Mickey Thompson E.T. street tires(12.5 X 30). I also lowered the front ride height of the car. My car went from high 1.70 60' times to mid 1.60 60' times.
Street traction.... On the street I would definitely stay away from anything that raises the upper bars or lowers the control arms on the rear end. This is fine for a prepped track but not a the street. Reason: Changing the geometry on the street keeps the car from transfering the weight to the rear. THe bars that raise or lower the control arm mount point move the leverage point futher back taking away leverage to lift the front end of the car. In turn they push the wheels into the ground and lift the car more evenly which is not good for street traction since the weight never transfers to the rear due to limited traction. The HR anti-roll bar and a good set of replacement control arms would be the way to go. Try to keep the rear as low as possible. On the converter, you may consider an 11" depending on you motor combo. THe higher the stall the harder it is to control on the street because it puts you in the power too quickly and doesn't give enough time to allow the car to get rolling before the power comes in. Gary's right, the converter is one of the most important things to making traction.
So, Rick, you don't think the "no-hop" bars are worth putting on a car that sees any street use? I am planning a suspension upgrade, and these were part of the plan. Mine is a street/strip application with emphasis on STRIP. I had not heard of problems with the "no hop" bars when used on the street. I am very interested in any more opinions/information on this subject. How bad is the effect they have on "normal driving" Thanks in advance. :TU:
I have a friend with the SSM bars on his Stage 1.I also have a set to go on my car when I change rear ends in the very near future.I can verify that the SSM bars work better on the street than at the strip on my friend's car.Of course the traction on the strip at the time was bad-it had been closed for about a year and for the Buick was like greased lightning although slick cars seemed to be ok. Out on the local highway about 5 miles from the strip(on the way home) there was virtually no wheelspin.The car also had drag radials and air bags by the way.It has about a 470 hp motor.I am sold on these bars,there is a marked improvement over my poly-bushed reinforced stock control arms for sure.Maybe things change when you are in the 550 hp category however.We are taking his car to the strip again this weekend to see if traction has improved.Rod
My tentative plan included the following parts from Jeg's: -Jeg's. Adjustable, upper and lower, rear control arms. -Edelbrock. "Anti-Hop" bars. -Hotchkis. Trailing arm braces. -Suspension Techniques. Sway bar kit. 1 1/4" front, 1 1/8" rear. Total Price...$808.94 Any opinions on this set up?? Will it be a waste for a vehicle that sees street use. I am more interested in performance at the track, but do not want an unstable/dangerous ride on the street. My horsepower is in the 500 range. I am very interested in any input reguarding the "Anti-Hop" bars (any brand) and their compatability with use on the street. o No: o No: o No: o No:
Dick Miler & SSM Bars....My Opinion To answer your question, I think no-hops work fine on the street. But if you are a hard core outlaw street racer, I would say stay stock configuration. Believe it or not, I like adjustable slapper bars because they give you the front end lift and hit on the tires from rear rotation. Cheep go-fast stuff. Plus its that ruff, red-neck, hot rod look that gives a bit of a sleeper look. :laugh: I like the SSM's and the Dick Miller setup but only on a well prepped track. With nitrous and my stock shocks/air bag/sway bar, the nitrous would hit the tires so hard that the rear would jump like a leap frog and unload the rear half way through the 60 ft. I could have dropped the upper arms down to the lower hole setting to reduce the hit but the rear needed clearancing to do this and the cam bent in the block before I got to change things. I then built a new motor and the car I have now. On the street, I still had wheel spin problems with both setups but the stock configuration with the rear sitting low, lifted the front end the most and transfered weight the best. So I spun less with the stock configuration since more weight transfered to the rear. The geometry change from stock to SSM/DM/No-Hop. Let say on a stock configuration the rotational force from the rear would create a lift point from front of the radiator. So if you were to take a jack and lift the car from this point and use say 500 lbs of force, you would get "x" amount of lift. You do not get much if any hit on the tires so a combination would not work well with a high torque multiplication/hard hit type converter with a small tire. You should use a converter, front springs and shocks to match your rear suspension setup. Now change the geometry to a DM or SSM and you move the lift point back to, let say, the drivers seat. Now you use the same amount of force (500 lbs) but you get 250 for lift on the front end and 250 goes to pushing the rear tires down. You are dependant on the tires planting on that initial hit to get the forward movement and hense weight transfer for traction. This is why "lift/no-hop" bars push the rear up and why stock suspension car stay level or squat. This is all ruff #'s to give you the general idea. It is for you to decide what is best for your combination. A "level" lower bar with an adjustable upper (similar to a 4-link) would be the ideal configuration but working with stock points, it doesn't work out that way. I did see once where a setup lowered the front of the lower control arms and raised the rear of the upper control arms. That was the best stock mod setup i've seen. All setups work in there own configuration matched to the right combination. I've seen both stock type and reconfigured stock type suspensions both 60ft in the 1.30's but its matching the components for each combination to get it to work. This is my veiw point on it, I hope it works for you. You decide what you want to go with. :TU: Go cheep.... change the bushings, box the lowers and throw on the adjustable slapper bars. :Brow:
Thanks for your input Rick!! :TU: I have poly bushings and boxed arms already. I don't care for "slapper bars" very much. :error: I am the "overbuild" type. So I tend to build with future mods in mind. I will be getting some 10.5 slicks in the near future that will allow the "no-hop" bars to work properly at the strip. I also plan to upgrade to an "HR Parts-N-Stuff" rear sway bar as soon as posible. So, as long as there are no major issues with the "Anti-Hop" type bars being used on the street....that will likely be the direction I take. ....as well as the other parts from Jeg's listed above. :TU:
I would just remind all of you that there are Cars in the 10's with less suspension than what you are thinking of buying........... Buddy's Chevelle described above goes consistant 1.4x 60 ft's........ I think most people will spend hundreds,Even up to a thousand dollars plus on suspension parts then try to hit it with the wrong converter...... Oh well,It's your money.......I tried,I mean well :Smarty:
Converter.... Gary is right, the most overlooked part of a combination is the converter. To get a good 60 ft you need the RIGHT converter not just any converter that will allow you to rev the motor higher on the launch.
