Hello, I want to control my SP following way: Switch to position 1 = SP is controlled by brake switch so that first gear is high stall, when brake is released it goes to low stall = Better take off? Switch to position 0 = SP has no +12, all gears stay at high stall. Switch to position 2 = SP has +12, all gears are in low stall. This is possible whit 2 different switches and 2 relay, but can this be done whit one relay and one 2 circuit switch, 3 position switch(3-way switch?). If someone could do for me somekind of wiring schematic how to do this what i want it would be nice. Before anyone asks why i want it like that, it's because i like options! My current wiring is 12+ to on-off switch and there to tranny. I did found this page to some sort of wiring: http://www.hotrodhomepage.com/hrhp/2005/09/05/switch-pitch-400-wiring-diagram/ and it got me thinking if 3-way control were possible and how to do it. I loaned the picture and in attachement is my version of the schematic what i was wondering if it even worked like that and do i need diode somewhere in that wiring? Do i need relays whit diode or seperate diode if needed? Hope you understand what i'm lookin for! :laugh:
The OEM and I both prefer high stall for launch with more rpm. Select high stall stopped, then continue high stall briefly after launch. But not everyone wants this. Your picture of the trans connector is upside down. The blades should form sort of a "T". The stator input is the top, horizontal terminal; the lower vertical is for kickdown. Applying 12V to the stator terminal gives HIGH stall; no 12V gives low stall. Bruce Roe
Hi Bruce, I allways get confused what is low and what is high stall :laugh: So it should be like this?: Switch to position 1 = SP is controlled by brake switch so that first gear is high stall, when brake is released it goes to low stall = Better take off? Switch to position 0 = SP has no +12V, all gears stay at high stall. Switch to position 2 = SP has +12V, all gears are in low stall. Picture is only visual pointer what i was asking/meaning, does that type of wiring even work to control SP how i wanted? Currently i have no idea what terminal it is connected but it works like it should, applying 12v to stator it goes to high stall. Original picture what is in the link is someone else, but i modified so it's more understandable what i was thinkin about. Can wiring be done like in my schematics and does it work if so? If it can be wired like that then i simply connect new wire to currently connected connector and everything should be OK. Thanks.
Markus, 1st you say, "SP has NO +12V, all gears stay at high stall." Then you say, applying +12V to stator it goes to high stall.", which is in direct conflict. So sort out what you mean. The trans stator solinoid requires 1.5A max, I don't see a need to use a relay. Fix your picture. I would use a simple 3 position switch for what you describe. Generally I refer to "high stall" as the PERFORMANCE mode for less confusion. Low stall, the ECONOMY mode. I launch in the PERFORMANCE mode to get going faster, but not everybody uses this method. Bruce
Bruce, Thank's for your explanation....so let's try again what i mean. :TU: Switch to position 1 = SP is controlled by brake switch so that first gear is ECONOMY mode, when brake is released it goes to PERFORMANCE mode= Better take off? Switch to position 0 = SP has no +12V, all gears stay at ECONOMY mode. Switch to position 2 = SP has +12V, all gears are in PERFORMANCE mode. Did i get it right now? I did not know that tran stator solenoid takes only about 1.5A max. Original picture had relay so i tought it take more current than that. It was the reason why i was thinkin to add relay also. But if i want switch position 1 to happen don't i need the relay for this? When i'm pressing the brake, first gear is in ECONOMY mode-->take off and it switches to PERFORMANCE mode for second and third gear. This way it would be "automatic" transfer from ECONOMY to PERFORMANCE mode and no hasle at the button? If i want to take off at the PERFORMANCE mode, that would be possible at switch position 2. Cruising would be then switch position 0 for ECONOMY mode. And if i want to hasle whit the button for my own pleasure that would be also possible, switch to position 0--->take off--->switch to position 2. That explanation may sound little crazy and complicated and it may raise a question "why in the hell that dude want to do like that" but like i said, i like "options" if possible! :bglasses: Markus
Years ago I seen a diagram from a old KB write up on the SP. I had it hooked up years ago and it used a single toggle switch, on/off. when off the SP was in regular(low) stall and when switch was on you get high stall, with 12 volts applied to the SP. Then they tap into the down side of the brake light switch, the wire that goes to the tail lights and that tap runs to the SP. The SP wiill be activated( go into high stall) when the brake is applied and the brake lights come one. To prevent the brake light from comming on when the SP is turned on by the on/off toggle switch, a diode is used in the splice from the brake light wire, to only allow the current to flow to the SP from the brake light and not back from the toggle switch power. Remember to use a a 12 V power source that is only hot when the car is running and not hot all the time. Not sure I have expained it well but it worked for me. I do not remember the value of the diode. Anyone remember or have this diagram and value of the diode please post it. Thanks Bill.
Hi Bill, That sounds allmost what i'm lookin for! If someone has wiring diagram for that it would be nice. I currenty have on-off mode switch. My first post has a link and there is some sort of wiring but that don't contain the diode and not sure how exactly that wiring works. So my feeling was right that the wiring it must include diode for the possible brake light problem. Markus
Markus, this is the best I can do on the diagram, it is small and you may need to blow it up to read it. I did the drawing and it is not the best and I did find the diode I used 20 years ago and included the number and value. I did look for it on the web and found what I think it is for amps and volts, not sure why I used that one, but though it was in the old KB write up, thanks Bill.
Bill, thanks for your effort. Picture is indeed small, it would be any if you send the picture strait to my email? Those connections looks similar with web link picture what i posted...exept there is no relay in your version and you added the diode. Markus
Markus, I can do that or you can copy the picture to you computer and then enlarge it, or PM me your address and I will send you a hard copy, thanks Bill.
Hmmm....i still got a feeling that you guys don't understand me correctly what my intensions are/what i'm trying to do/how i want to control my SP. I was waiting for more comments and ideas how to do what i want, so i will try refrase my question. Please bare whit me... Normal driving i prefer the low stall, because smoother shifts/economy, so that would be switch position "0". When i want to launch quarter mile or what ever reason, i prefer to do it whit first gear in low stall and right after launch switch to hi stall. It changes automatically low stall to hi stall after launch. This would be switch position "1". My current procedure to do that is, SP is on low stall and after launch i flip the switch and SP goes to hi stall, this is what i want to make "automatic" if i want to use it. Then if i want to use SP like Bruce likes it, on the hi stall launch that would be possible on switch position "2". When i'm leaving from city and entering on a higway i'll flip the switch to hi stall. Switch position "1" could be used to this too, but if i wanted i could do it manually also. So i want to control my SP multiple way on a single switch and i don't really know how to do that. Link in my first post had a wiring how to wire SP like it has hi stall on all the time but when brake is pressed it goes to low stall when stopping on stoplights, if i understanded that explanation right this is the way to making my "automatic" low to hi stall happen...only problem is how to wire the rest of my switch positions and make it work whit single 3-position switch and single relay? This is what i need some diagrams from you if anyone has doned like this or has some ideas how to do it. Does this make any sense what i'm trying to do and what do you think, useles or maybe more ways to control SP? Darn this was a long post! :laugh: Don't take my typing at offence and there are maybe some typos etc. It's hard to find right words and typing this post has taken me forever! ---------- Post added at 01:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 AM ---------- I did saved the picture different way to my computer and it will do for now thank you...i tried to save other way but it was so small. When i enlarge it wasn't readable anymore...now i can read it :TU:
Markus, This is the way the switch pitch was controlled from the factory. There were two switches, both incorporated into the throttle linkage. One up near the firewall put the converter into high stall at a complete stop and idling. The other switch controlled a stall change at higher throttle openings. As soon as you touched the gas, you got low stall. If you went beyond 60 % throttle, you would go back into hi stall, and at or near full throttle, the transmission would kick down. That is the best way to use a switch pitch on the street. At the track, you only need high stall for the first 60-100 feet. It helps to launch the car. Once the car is moving, low stall gets you the best time and MPH. The best way to accomplish that is with a box with timers. Bruce makes an excellent box that hooks up to the switch pitch with 3 different timers, and a vacuum switch. The only downside for me was that the way Bruce had the box set up, hi stall would stay on after coming off the brake for a minimum of 3.2 seconds. I didn't want that as my hi stall was a bit too loose for regular street driving, and I wanted low stall as soon as I came off the brake. Bruce modified the box for me to accomplish that. My switch pitch works like the factory set it up. The vacuum switch puts it back into high stall at about 4.5 inches of vacuum, and there is a vacuum timer to put it back to low stall. The box also has a Drag Racing mode to hold high stall on launch, and shut the converter off after launch. I have posted about this before. If you do a search under Bruce Roe, it should come up. Get Bruce's box, it is worth it. It gives you the most control options for the SP. Here is my prior post. My comments start at post #8, http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...e-s-Electronic-Controller&highlight=bruce+roe More on Bruce's timer box, Post #20, http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?190723-convert-sp400-to-th400&highlight=Bruce Roe
Larry, Thank you very much for your explanation and links! I think i'm a much wiser now. :laugh: That Bruce's box seems to do everything what is needed and it seems to be nice looking also, i'm getting interested on that box! Have to think about getting one at some point...is that box expensive?
I forget what it cost exactly. It was up around 165.00 back in 2010. Bruce Roe responded in this thread (post #5). All you need to do is PM or E mail him, and ask.
I'm not really familiar with SP transmissions and I might not be getting this right but wouldn't the only time you would need it to be in "High Stall" is at take off so you can wind the RPM's up to launch harder? I might not be reading this right but I'm still trying to figure these tranny's out myself.
Yes, in a drag race situation, you only need high stall to get the car moving from a dead stop. You can also get some benefit at part throttle. It feels like a kick down. You get some more RPM out of it. A lot depends on how much stall speed you have. The stock 13" converter stalls lower overall and you can use it off idle on the street, but I have a modified 12", and the high stall is a bit loose. Leaving it in high stall off idle makes the car feel lazy. That is why I had Bruce modify my box to give me low stall immediately off idle. Once rolling, if I punch it, I get high stall via the vacuum switch, and the kick down. Really gets the engine further into the power range very quickly.
I am attaching a wiring diag to clear up some things. On the right are the trans, manual switch, and kickdown switch. On the left are 3 ways you might set up an AUTO control. The bottom option is to use an electronic control for maximum features. The center is a common scheme, using the brake switch to supply 12V to the stator solinoid selecting high stall (performance mode) when the brake is on. Releasing the brake removes 12V selecting low stall (economy mode). The diode can be replaced with a short, if nothing else is wired to the trans; otherwise, another source would try to turn on the brake lights. If 4 way flashers are used, the manual switch should be used to avoid back and forth operation. The top left adds a relay to reverse the operation. With brake on, the relay operates to open the contact and go to low stall. When the brake is released, the relay drops and 12V is applied to the stator solinoid, selecting performance mode. 4 way warning still applies. Setting the manual switch to LOW STALL sends no power to the stator solinoid. Setting the manual switch to HIGH STALL sends 12V to the stator solinoid. The preferred solinoid 12V source is the kickdown 12V. My method (after several hundred thousand street miles) is to set PERFORMANCE when stopped, to let the engine idle easier & avoid creeping. Then taking off I keep it in PERFORMANCE going through the gears. This keeps my engine in a higher rpm power band, and definitely smooths shifts. Leveled off I change to ECONOMY mode. If you brake to slow, this keeps the engine from pushing so much, and you are back in PERFORMANCE mode to get back speed. With a controller, this also happens automatically if you push hard enough on the gas to drop manifold vacuum. I have a MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE mode in the controller, which shortens the PERFORMANCE time after brake release. It is selected by the kickdown switch (WOT launch) or a switch. Don't use it much here on the street. What I like won't suit everyone. Note, changing from one mode to the other at brake release isn't instantaneous. The servo in the pump and the converter piston both have to operate to do it. Bruce Roe
I've got Bruce's box on my 65 ST-300, and it works great - he modified it for me to come out of high stall immediately on brake release (like Larry's) , but stay on timer at full throttle after brake release. I actually tried manual control this spring and my ET's were faster with the timer set at 3 seconds.....Great product and Bruce was very helpful in talking through my objectives and potential settings....here's where I would put a thumbs up icon if I was that talented...
