Stock 455 crank limits

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by 10sec 455, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    I have an new F2 reverse Procharger and have it setup to go on a SB2 headed sbc. I would also like to setup a 455 to run the same blower. How much power have you seen put to a stock crank? I will run BBC rod journals with a radius to help it live. If I cant make over 1000 hp I wont bother with it.
     
  2. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    Got TA Block?

    JW
     
  3. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    Nope, Just a bandaid.
     
  4. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    My personal opinion is that without the billet crank and TA block, your throwing good money after bad here, if your out for all out dragstrip performance. If this is a hot street/occasional strip car, then the the investment is not so jeopardized, as those motors spend more time not making max output, and turning max rpm all the time.

    Mackley has a nailhead crank in a 455 stock block, and is making serious HP on the huffer, but I would say the jury is still out on durability. Time will tell on that one.

    John C has what is likely a 850-900 HP combo that they have been playing with for a while, and they are getting away with it. He's had that hot street/occasional strip car together for some time now.

    Durability will have a lot to do with what rpm you spin the thing to. Keep the R's at a reasonable level, and a well prepared stock block/crank will live for a while, but if you push the rpm up past 6500 or so, lifespan will be dramatically decreased.

    I asked about the TA block, because I believe that reliable combo's around 1000 HP will be doable, with the more rigid block, even with the stock 455 crank.

    The stock crank is a tough piece, I have built a number of 700+ HP NA race motors, that are pounded on mercilessly, that live just fine. We found the limits of the 494 stuff a while back, at about 780HP, but those cracked the rod journals in the radius, I believe due to the 283 rod journal diameter, in conjunction with the "flexible" stock block.

    But I will warn you, any stock block combo at this level is fragile, with no margin of safety for detonation. It may only take one pass with a lean fuel mixture, to wipe out the whole works.

    JW
     
  5. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    Jim,
    That is my thought exacly. Low rpm, 6500 tops, mild boost and possibly on alcoholm ost likely. The TA block thing would just be an out of control snowball. Can't have the TA block without a billet crank, can't have std journal main, std cam, blah blah blah... I just want a simple blow thu gas or alky combo that will last a while at least. I like the idea of alky, no intercooler, easier tuneup, but also comes with some other issues.
     
  6. 71skylark3504v

    71skylark3504v Goin' Fast In Luxury!

    The 350 block has been used for over 1000 HP before. Might be something to look into.
     
  7. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    Beat mine all the way down to .040 under and welded a thrust on it. It didn't crack or break on mine. Just replaced it to be safe with another stock crank.
     
  8. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    Rick,
    How many passes? Did you have it magged?
     
  9. Bobb Makley

    Bobb Makley Well-Known Member

    I agree with Jim on some of what he said. My deal is 100 % not tested and I don't think it is a reliable set-up but if figured why not it would be fun to try so far so well so so but we are figuring it out. We are Building a crank snout support now to help support the pressure from the blower pulling on the small crank.

    But if you look at John's combo you will see that he is making over 900 hp with rather low boost the most he has pushed is like 8 I think if memory is correct. John’s car this year with a 464 has run 9.63 @143 W/A 1.50 sixty with 5lbs of boost and his car scales at over 3950. That is with an F1R the F2 will make more power at the same boost do to volume of air moved and they are more efficient than a F1R mean it makes less heat. Now johns block is a stock crank, aluminum rodded, wiscoe pro tru pistons short fill block with NO BLOCK GIRDLE just a halo. He keeps the rpms down under 6500 it shifts 6000 and 6400 thru the traps. The way a super charger works it spends all it's time in the pits and when being driven at little to no boost meaning it has 9.00 to 1 compression. Unlike a 14.00 to 1 motor so they only see max boost at the top of every gear it is a build up in every gear if you look at the map sensor reading on my car high gear is at max boost the longest for sure but that still is only part of the run. When I launch the car it has less than 5 pounds and climbs to 18 in first on the shift it drop down to like 9 to 10 area and climbs again. I think with the right combo as long as you don't get crazy you can make that kind of power with out an after market block or crank. 1000 horse power is to be honest not that hard to make with a charger. We made a pump gas 535 that made 1020 with co2 on the air to air with 12 pounds of boost. Now we have it in the car and we aren't spraying co2 on it and we have turned down the boost so we can just have some fun and not work on it. Now that has the bull dog block but we really aren’t pushing it at all to make those numbers. The heads only flow 330's and the cam is 250's 260's at 50 with .590 lift 605 lift. now we have that in our tube car that we finally scaled with all the charger stuff on it comes in at 2570 and has run 8.50's @ 163 with a converter that is tight only netting 60's in the mid 1.30's when it should be low 20's if not teens. Now we know that is no wares near the ET it should be running but we also never take the hood off the car. We made two qualifiers and went to the finals and never took the hood off till the final round and that was to put fans on it to cool it off faster. But I digress, I think with the right combo it is very do able but it is still a stock Buick block and crank so you have to keep that in mind also. The after market part sure will help with your comfort level but you can build a couple three short blocks for what you will have in a block and crank. So you have to decide were your money is best spent:dollar: :dollar:
     
  10. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the input Bobb, good reading.
     
  11. northcorner

    northcorner Guess what I'm thinking..

    Jeff, if you go the alky route, why not buy Rod's 4 bolt block? I'm guessing it's still for sale:Do No: It seems like a great deal for an alky guy. Wish I could afford it right now, alky is surely in my future.
     
  12. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    Bob,
    On Johns car do you know how fast they are spinning the blower. Trying to come up with a pulley combo for mine. My blower max rpm is 6800, I think I will start at around 4400. How about yours, are you any where near blower max rpm?
     
  13. jake csordas

    jake csordas Well-Known Member

    we have a 71 tooth crank pulley and a 48 tooth blower pulley for the low boost of 7 and a 40 or 42 pulley for the 12 pounds of boost. we missed you at the shakedown this weekend we were there and qualified for heavy in the 26th spot.
    john jr
     
  14. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    I did stop by but there was a couple guys you were talking with so I didn't bother you. I was checking it out for a while. I didn't get there until around 11am, so I missed your run on Sunday. What is the ratio of your blower? Mine is 5.40 to 1.
     
  15. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    Jake, What blower do you have?
     
  16. jake csordas

    jake csordas Well-Known Member

    no problem but it would have been good to meet you. the ratio i believe is a 5.4 to 1 also but i would have to look it up to be sure. by the way the name is john jr i just use my sons name to post since my dad is john also. like i said take a ride down to our shop whenever you want if you want a closer look at anything or if we can help you out with anything. there is always something brewing in the shop. this past weekend at the shakedown we left sat afternoon came home and replaced the headgaskets and went back again on sunday. good thing we have a lot of fun doing this and i have a great team of friends that help out in there own ways. thanks to my dad, dave, chuck, phil and many more for everything including the smallest tasks that save a lot of time.
    john jr
     
  17. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    John,
    I will probably take a ride over this winter. Head gasket trouble, was this with the 12psi?
     
  18. jake csordas

    jake csordas Well-Known Member

    yes it was with the 12 psi. looks like it was very lean by looking at the valves and plugs. guess i got to send the carb back and have it adjusted slightly and probably time to get an oxygen sensor to tell the real readings. also going to learn how to use the digital programmable msd 7 and get the timing set up properly. going to be a long winter.
    john jr
     
  19. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    I am looking into the Innovate LM-2. May be time for a dual needle carb. I have a CSU with dual needles from a blow thru turbo car.
     

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  20. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    Jeff, is this mustang using a Air to water intercooler? Here is Lm-2's web site in case you or other's reading this don't have it. Chris
    http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm2.php
     

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