Spx vrs sp2

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by Bens99gtp, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    That's my issue too is the $. My motor Jim is only 464 now, the new one won't be over 482 don't have the funds for a stroker crank , the 308s is 268/274 so I would guess whatever the new cam is going to be it will be at least that big......

    Same issue with heads I already had these going b4 I even knew about those heads.

    Dual doms on a little 464 sounds like alot or carb
     
  2. GS Kubisch

    GS Kubisch THE "CUT-UP" BUICK

    My experience was SP1 to Wildcat on a 7000rpm 505. Both intakes were ported by the same person and ran the same in the 1/4 mile with less than 90 minutes between runs.

    Not really apples-to-apples to the question in the thread.

    Most bracket combos I know of that run past 7000rpm use a B1 or Indy Mopar manifold with the one exception being Dave/Mitch Mongeon...They had impressive gains by replacing their TA SP manifold with an SPX/Wildcat both on the dyno and the track. Keep in mind that was also a Stage 4 head I believe.
     
  3. BuickGSrules

    BuickGSrules Gold Level Contributor

    Thanks for info. Yes, if I could afford a Tomahawk and the new heads I would. The stg2's I have is SE and converted to Jesel rockers, but I have a set of stg3's too, but with shaft rockers. Don't know if it is right but heard that roller rockers can't stand the +700 lift/spring pressure? But those could be used with a custom intake like Rob's.
     
  4. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    Thanks for chiming in gary, it's nice to hear real world data, seems that on some combos it matters some it doesnt, seems like what I'm hearing is the sp2 seems short on the larger cube higher rpm stuff, but might not really be hurting my combo too bad. But truly can't tell till you try.

    I'm not planning any changes to my combos top end, have enough issues other places to figure out what's going on in my bottom end, just talking for future info
     
  5. Dave Mongeon

    Dave Mongeon Well-Known Member

    tested fully ported SP2 and fully ported SPX back to back on dyno .
    Best HP SP2 = 911 best hp Spx = 929 no other changes on dyno
    Best ET 8. 96 147 Best ET 8.90 151+ Chris Skaling freshened heads before these track results
     
  6. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    Thanks dave, that's great real world numbers
     
  7. TORQUED455

    TORQUED455 Well-Known Member

    You have to be careful comparing peak HP/TQ numbers as they relate to accelerating a car and timeslips...
     
  8. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    I agree peak numbers and usable numbers are 2 very different things. For me the use able numbers throughput the rpm is what makes a car move......peak numbers look great for bench racing
     
  9. Philip66

    Philip66 Well-Known Member

    Ok, forgive me if this has all been covered before but I just want to make sure I have it right.
    For years, beside the stock iron intake, the only intake option was an Eldebrock B4B. A great dual plane intake that saved weight and gave a mild performance increase. Problem was that it changed the carb pad location and a factory ram-air breather would not line up with the scoops in a GS hood (70-72). So they came out with a Performer which was basically the same intake, but now you can use the suck-air breather.
    TA designs a single plane intake called the Stage 1 SP-1 to fit factory iron heads and TA's aluminum Stage 1 and 2 heads. Kenne-Bell has a single plane intake called Wildcat. Again, for use with standard port heads in aluminum or iron. At some point TA improves the intake port design on their heads calling them Tall Port or TE (Track Eliminator) or Stage 3 and Stage 4. The Stage 1 SP-1 intake becomes the SP-1 and is still used on Street Eliminator (SE) and stock port heads. and the SP-2 is designed to mate up with the TE Tall Port Stage 3-4 heads.
    Kenne-Bell discontinues supporting Buick and TA adopts the Wildcat intake and calls it SPX. (Mike, forgive me if this is incorrect. Not trying to discredit you or anyone at TA. Love what you do and I support you as much as I can)!!
    SPX-Wildcat is a single plane intake that is designed for stock-factory-or TA aluminum SE port and Eldebrock Aluminum heads. The only way to use the SPX Wildcat intake on Track Eliminator, TE, Tall Port, Stage 3, Stage 4 heads is by using an adaptor made by Rob at Precision Billet, and others. Is this correct??
    Also, some people use a Mopar single plane intake with an adaptor for either SE or TE port heads. Again, not sure about the chronology of all of this, but I think my assumptions are correct. None of this ever mattered to me as I always had stock port heads until I bought my Regal that has TA Stage 3 TE heads. The billet intake I just purchased is made to bolt on to the TE heads with no adaptor required.
    I know that Poston Enterprises also designed/built an intake but they are no longer in business and their intake offered no real improvements over what was currently available.
    It does seem confusing at times, and I'm sure there are others who know much more about this than I do.
     
    Max Damage likes this.
  10. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    You got it Phillip.. there are some trivial details incorrect, but it's more or less what you said.

    JW
     
  11. Dave Mongeon

    Dave Mongeon Well-Known Member

    True thats why i look at avg #'s from converter stall up to shift rpm when designing/selecting a cam etc for a race car . Then set the car up to run in that range gear tire etc.
     
  12. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    And the SP2 a made peak power at 6600 vs 7100 rpm with the SPX which in my opinion is the biggest gain. They pulled the Sp2 to 7000 and the spx to 7300 both at 7000 made SP2) 902hp and 677ftlbs vs SPX) 923hp and 693ftlbs.
     
  13. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member


    Just for question did the spx beat it throughout the rpm range or just in the upper, be interesting to see the spread at 4 45 5 55 6 65 as well. 20hp/20ftlps is a decent amount.......
    Especially if it had it all the way through the rpm range, not just from 6 to 73
     
  14. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    Is it the correct runner length for Dave's engine? No but it was important for me and Dave to push it as far as we could by keeping all TA parts on his engine, its not a huge cam either. At some point I will do dyno testing with the SPX vs SP1 also most likely on a 491 stg2TE, 13.0:1 deal
     

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    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
    8ad-f85 likes this.
  15. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    Dave's window starts @6000 so in my opinion the SPX is where its at. The sp2 made more power down low but its never down there. The runners are big for Daves 530, on a smaller engine it would not get work as hard as this one. There is a lot of work in that spx, if I remember right I only had enough time to flow a couple runners and they were around 440cfm.
     
  16. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    Great info, our 464 sees 6500, with the new rods I'd be willing to push that some more if the motor doesn't lay over up there, I know sometime what works for a bigger cubic motor doesn't scale back, and vise versa. It's really too bad there isn't a bolt on manifold made to support the air flow and cubes the newer motors are needing.

    On our combo we are off the brake at 3500, with about a 4500 flash shifting at 6500.......for me some mid range down low is still figured and needed to get my 3850 pound sled up and going
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  17. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    What compression and cam and flow#s do you have. the sp2 needs a fair bit of port work to get it to work and some of those long runners are a bitch to get at. SPX is a air gap type intake which I will not heat the crap out of the runners like the sp1 and sp2 does and that is with out running any any ice water through the SPX. Dave also tested the running cold water through the spx and found nothing extra on the dyno. All good intakes, but I find my self using the SPX more and more. The little bit you might lose down stairs with the Spx and you will not lose much but it will make up for it on the other end and also keep in mind that a small tire heavy car should benefit from that as there is plenty of torque there either way if that makes sense.
     
    Julian and 300sbb_overkill like this.
  18. We ran Ken Montour's Stratomist blue 800 HP 464" Stage 1 "Iron Head" combo for about a decade now. Out of the box The SPX/WILDCAT were quite similar.Duane ported them and port matched them, and the Wildcat was between a solid tenth and tenth and a half over the SP1.The car ran an aver age of
    10:10 ET and on a good day would crack into the 9'S.Then the Wildcat was removed and Duane got really serious with it. The Wildcat was then installed back on the car with absolutely no other changes or mods except jetting, and the combo immediately ran 9:80 all day long and finally, with some more jetting settling in at 9:75 ET. The results are documented on YouTube in two videos. First: The 9 second "Iron Head" video. And then Second "Iron Head Update" video with the final porting results with the Wildcat and the 9:75 ET. This was with a 1050 Dominator. We feel in the future trying a larger carb might show additional gains ?.That's just our experiences so far. Over and out.
     
  19. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member


    My compression now is about 11.5 getting new pistons to push this towards 12.5. Cam is 308s, the sp2 was ported by Bob at finishline.......no clue how much never saw the intake stk, but appears to have a lot of time put in it. Picture of flow numbers, seal to retainer contact happened at .720 lift
     

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  20. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    How much power are you looking to make?
     

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