I had plans to build up my '69 350 4 barrel engine soon and had a few questions. First off, my original intent with the engine was to drop it into my '87 Pontiac Grand Prix and produce 450-500hp give or take. However, I've been milling it all in my head and as a summer daily driver, I don't think I would really need that high of horsepower. Also, after reading a few threads, it seems it takes big bucks to get there as well (trying to stick to a tight budget). In fact, I am now thinking of producing a healthy torque number in the low to mid rpm range and having some fun with it instead of going all out with horsepower since that is what these 350's seem to be great at. G-body cars such as my Grand Prix are around an estimated 3500lb's give or take a few variables. It shouldn't take much to get this car moving and have some fun with her. She probably won't see a drag strip much, so I'm not worried too much about that. Just the seat of the pants feel and moderately quick is all I'm after. This is where my question comes in. I'm thinking 400 ft/lb's of torque would be adequate enough for my goals, letting horsepower land where it may land. What would it take to get there? I was hoping to use a G-body specified Y-pipe (with 3" inlet going to 2.5" "dual" outlets that I bought, and really should have waited with getting.. ), along with the stock manifolds (since I don't think there is anyone that makes shorty headers for the 350 that I'm aware of..), new cam, and whatever everyone thinks would be necessary. I also will be tearing the engine down to the block since it has been sitting and giving the engine a complete look over to make sure nothing is wrong with it. Hopefully I'm not too high in the sky with my expected goal. Any advice that you guys could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. :TU:
If you have a good running 69 350 I would remove the heads, have them slightly ported and rebuilt, milled about 70 thou with the intake side of the head milled to match the geometry for the intake to fit well. Adjustable pushrods from TA, TA 212 cam and lifters, a rebuilt Q jet and you should be more than happy.
Thanks for the reply Sean. I was actually looking at the TA 212, but what is your opinion on the TA 284-88H cam or the TA 290-94H? The TA 284-88H states that it gives more torque than the TA 212 cam, which is what I'm shooting for goal wise. The TA 290-94H seems like little upgrade from the TA 212 or TA 284-88H cam, as well and still stays within my rpm range that I'm going with. Any suggestions for or against these? Just covering bases here for now and playing the "What if" game until I can pin point exactly what I'm after. Hate to jump on something like this too quickly is all. Thanks again though! :TU: (On a side note, can't wait to see the book from you. :beer)
If you are willing to use a 2800 stall torque converter then the 284 or 290 cams are great. keep in mind that although the 284 cam may make more peak torque than a 212 cam it will also make its torque and HP higher in the rpm range and also pull less vacuum at idle. With 3.42 or 3.73 gears, well ported heads with oversized valves, a 2800-3000 stall converter, etc the 290 cam is great....
Ah, true wasn't even thinking about that. As my plan stands, and I would go with the TA 212 cam, port job, and planned exhaust system, what power expectancy should I be looking at here? I'm sure anything I do at this point will be worlds better than the stock 305 Chevy engine in her now..
A typical Buick 350 with 9.5:1 compression, well ported heads, stock intake, stock Q jet, TA212 cam makes about 350 HP at 5600 RPM and 410 ft of tq.... This will vary about 15 HP either way depending on various factors... The manifolds will also kill about 15 HP off the HP but the torque will be strong still.
Thanks again, Sean. That looks to be about perfect for what I've been wanting out of it. Sounds like a plan. I may strap on the TA intake as well to this setup. Who knows, I might get adventurous and get TA's full exhaust system for G-body cars and get some headers and a new crossmember to accommodate it.
So where is the TA intake better than the stock 4 barrel? Weight? Does it improve throttle response? Seems my 350 revs much faster now...but I also added a 212 cam.
I'm interested in the intake also..I have a stock 68' 350ci 4 barrow that's got a set of ta headers 3" pipe W/dynomax race bullets dumped before the rear axel. From what I read an what my ol man said these motors are 10.25 to 1 C.R.. Is it worth me getting an intake now or save for a nice cam? I seen what Sean said about the ta 284 with less vac at idle but my car is manual everything. I wish I took the car to the track even before the headers to see what a "stock" 350 would of done.Then anything I changed take it to the track an let it rip:3gears:
The intake is lighter, but even with the weight loss I have never heard of a car running faster in the quarter mile with one vs a stock intake. Maybe ported it might be better than stock. Dan who runs mid 11s without a power adder using his 350 with Q jet and stock 4 barrel intake tried a TA intake and the car slowed down. Here is some testing: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?50141-TA-intake-vs-stock-iron&highlight=alive ---------- Post added at 07:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 PM ---------- If you are willing to add a higher than stock torque converter then thr 284 is fine. More power in the cam swap vs an intake swap.. Read the testing above.
that just shows old post are still useful..:Smarty:ya i would like to build up a nice tranny with a good stall and tran brake. right now i have the stock turbine 300. are they worth building like a glid ,or just buy a glide. i also have a stock turbo350 and my stock 87 gn tranny:Brow:
I would not bother with a 300 trans, build a 2004r or a th350.... The 1st gear ratio of the 300 trans sucks compared to either of the other trans..
Great discussion guys! I was actually going to ask a few of those questions myself. I would go with Sean on this one. Since you have the '87 GN Tranny, I would definitely go with that one myself. Added bonus of OD, a better first gear ratio than any of the others listed so far if memory serves me right, and the added bonus of being stronger and having higher shift points than the other Th2004r's. I had originally planned to get a TH2004r from CK Performance, but I might have to hold off on that and build the stock TH2004r that's in my car to withstand the 350.
Ya I would agree. It's my first 2 speed..there interesting :shock:. First gear goes to about 67mph an that's under 5k! But if you drive "normal" it shifts like a 3 speed an sits at 45mph @2200rpm. I believe it to have 331 gear gears I was thinking 373 or 390. The car wont drive far. The race track is only 20 miles outta town an it's a low bang for your buck buick burn out machine! :3gears: ---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 AM ---------- I was thinking the gn tranny but much later on along with gears. I did tell my dad he could have it for his BBB build but since I found a small block myself its slowly turning into a father son "who's sbb can run the fastest?" :laugh:
Interesting for sure.:TU: So it's your SBB vs his BBB? Or does he have a SBB as well? If I were you and I had the cash, I would definitely turbo the SBB.:laugh: Hell, if I wasn't on a tight budget, I would be turboing my 350. Even small amounts of boost awakens these engines up really well.:Brow:
No he has a 68' Gs 350 hardtop .030 over, mild cam , 10.5 c.r., and forged pistons. The only thing is he don't think he degreed the cam right (20+ yrs ago) cause you can but the timing almost anywhere an it won't ping even on 87oct. I have a 68' skylark hardtop with no power anything and a 68' 350 I found off Craigslist for $150 that's all stock except for the ta headers 3" exhaust and a new timing set. An ya the turbo idea is cool but I have an 85 an 87 gns and there enough headache between the two of them..
Yep, most likely will have to use my stock TH2004r as it stands for a while. I'm more worried about my 7.5" non posi rear. Heard them breaking under the power of the 231c.i. v6, but at the same token holding up to big blocks that go 12's or better in the quarter mile with no upgrades... I'll just have to see. I do want posi and 3.73 gears, but it will probably have to wait as well as the transmission.
Would I need to get a drive shaft cut or maybe made? I know a guy around here that built my mud trucks drive shaft. Can't remember price but I know the ol lady didn't :af: to much..but she likes the mud truck better than the "new buick that needs paint ,interior ,and a better place to stay" like my other 2 lolou: ---------- Post added at 02:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:41 AM ---------- Keep an eye on Craigslist for a gn rear or even M.c's. I think the m.c. Ss is a 7.5 pois 373 an guys down here push them with 383 nitrous motors so they must hold good enough.. If not the stock gn rear is proven high 9's
