So I bought new front hoses and figured that this would be a 30 minute per side job. It is never easy, is it? I cannot remove the flared nut from the metal line that attaches to the flex hose. I purchased a set of line wrenches that are supposed to be used with flared lines like the brake lines. The metal is too soft and is deforming around the line wrench. I looked online and saw lots and lots of recommendations for PB Blaster. I bought some of that and sprayed it and let it sit for about 20 minutes or so. That does not work either. I tried using vice grips, and even those are slipping around the soft metal. I was a little apprehensive about using heat since the shop manual and most literature tell you not to. At this point, both sides are fairly rounded out and will never come off with a wrench. I guess the next step would be to cut the nut off right at the line. How difficult is it to attach a new nut and reflare the brake line while the lines are attached to the car. I really don't want to have to do all new lines. I'm guessing that I need a special tool to flare the end of the line? Thanks, Mike
Forming a new line is hugely preferable compared to trying to deal with what you have now. Double flaring a brake tube can be a pain all by itself, I wouldn't want to attempt in with the line installed at all without some expensive tooling, then you're rolling the dice by bending the old line to make up for lost length. Another option would be to purchase a straight tube with nuts and double flares from your auto parts store and hand bending it to fit as well as possible, avoiding contact with surrounding components. In the future, applying low-level propane torch heat followed by a quench with cold water is often enough to dislodge a rusty, frozen brake tube nut, penetrating oil helps afterwards too. Note I only recommend heat on a jounce hose fitting if the hose is going to be replaced anyway. Devon
Can't give you a temperature per se, but I only heat until the sharper edges of the nut begin to throw some orange color into the blue plume of the torch. You shouldn't have to get the tube nut glowing or anything. Make sure if you have to repeat and you're heating the nut after applying penetrating oil that you avoid inhaling any smoke/fumes. Devon
Well at this point, if I heat the thing to where it is glowing, will the vice grips work do you think?
At this point the tube and hose are goners, so sure you can mess with the heat & quench trick. You'd save time by just cutting off the tube above the nut and removing the retaining clip from the jounce hose bracket so you can take it all apart and then replace the tube and hose. Devon
Replacing lines is not that bad of a job IF you have the right tools. The cheap flaring kits you can buy in a hardware store are not very reliable. They can work, but I've always had problems with them. Years ago, I bought a Mastercool hydraulic flaring tool that makes all kinds of flares easily, and quickly. It was expensive, but there is no substitute IMHO. If you lived near me, I would help you, but you have not filled out your profile fully, so your location does not come up. Help could be around the corner and no one would know. It is not always necessary to replace an entire metal line. You can replace just the part you damaged in many cases with a solid union with flares on both sides. Again, you need a reliable flaring tool.
I had that filled in at one time, not sure what happened. Unofrtunately for me, I am on the west coast near Seattle. I found a thread on the board where someone had a hard time with leaking connections after using a flaring tool. I saw a few nice ones but I don't know if it would be good for me to spend on something especially when I don't always have a project car to play around with. I'll see if anyone I know has a quality tool I can use. Is the solid union just a female/female connector allowing me to purchase a small length of line?
Yes, the union is exactly as you described. It's a pain to add in a tight space. Leakage from new double flares is most often due to poor flare concentricity, unfortunately it happens with the low cost flaring tools. Cutting and flaring old lines is problematic, it's more difficult if the OD of the tubing is corroded and smaller in diameter than it was originally. I think your best bet is to find a straight tube at the parts store with the tube nuts and flares already in place, and route it as I'd already mentioned. Devon
Depends on which side its on. If its the drivers side, you might be surprised how short the line is. As it goes from the hose to the combinaation valve only a short distance away. If its the passenger side, it will be a little more difficult as it follows the engine cradle to the drivers side. You might want to look into getting a "Nicopp" line. Its a copper, nickel combination and super easy to bend and flare compared to the more common double nickel lines
Next time I have to replace a line I'm going to look into this, I've heard some good things about it in the aftermarket. Haven't had exposure to the product yet as the OEM's aren't using it (unless they started in the last couple of years). I'll take easy formability and good durability any day; it would be nice to try. Devon
I just used them on my friends 97 Escort recently. He bought the car and asked me if I could replace a bad line he had in it. Seems easy enough right? One little line. Turned out every single line in the car was bad. I couldnt catch a break. Replaced 350" of line in that stupid thing. Used Nicopp. Im a believer after that job. NY State DMV had to issue a statement to all the inspection facilities to not fail cars due to Nicopp lines as they look like copper.
Passenger side of course. I found somebody who has a tool I can borrow Are there any banjo fitting conversions, hehe?
Sorry to stray off topic Mike... Jason, sorry to hear you had to go through that. You're talking to (writing with) the tube engineer that inherited the '96 Escort design and fought with it tooth & nail for three years at both the Wayne, MI plant and Hermosillo, Mexico. The tubing was supplied by a company called Bundy and used a PVDF coating that drove us nuts when our company received it already flared to be bent. Mazda had final design responsibility for the brakes, it took me five trips to Hiroshima to meet with them personally to finally dissuade them from that product and make a switch to a much more durable nylon-coated brake tubing we manufactured ourselves. The upside was a huge increase in durability, the downside was of course...how do you grip a nylon-coated tube to reflare it? o No: Thanks for the not-so-fond memories. I take that back, my time in Japan was awesome. Devon
If the whole line is easily accessible, and you can get the fitting off at the other end, consider replacing the whole line. If you're lucky, a pre-flared section the same length will be avail from the parts store. Bending to match the old line is fairly easy once the old line is removed. Best to measure length of the old line before removing to determine if this is a good option.
would it be cheaper / more practical to purchase prefabbed brake lines. i did not mess with old liens in 2002 but purchased all new prebent lines from inline tube or similar company.
For future refernece http://www.irwin.com/tools/locking-tools/the-original-locking-wrenches I used a set of these on a rusted up fitting at a brake caliper. PB Blaster, big breaker bar, line wrenches, and everything else I tried failed. The fitting would just twist and destort under pressure. Snapped a pair of these on and snugged it down tight, then a few taps with a rubber hammer to shake out the loose rust, and off it came. Of course I still replaced the line and fitting since the fitting was destroyed from fighting with it for so long. If I'd used these from the start I may have been able to save it. I ended up having to order them from amazon in a couple different sizes since none of the parts or home stores actually have them in stock and the free shipping on 2 was a better deal than 1 plus shipping.
