ok, so at the recommendation of Dave, who I believe was recommended by Casey, I took a look at Torque Tech last night for exhaust systems. I will be getting one of their setups for my 69 W-31 shortly and I just had a few questions for those that have used their systems. 1. the supplied muffler and tailpipe clamps. Did you guys use those or were you able to use repro's of the original style? I'd like to use the repro's of the original style, but I understand this is an aftermarket exhaust system and that might not be possible. 2. mufflers. I know it's mainly a personal choice, but, well, first whats the deal with the 409 versions being painted black? But my real question is, any recommendations? I'm leaning towards the flowmasters, 13" length versions IIRC. TIA
You can use the repop hangers and clamps - - no problemo. The only thing that you have to do is elongate the holes on the muffler clamps to accomodate the 2 1/2" pipe. But that's easy. Personally, Flowmasters are too loud for me - - but that's me. BUT, the mufflers that I have on my car right now are also too loud for me, but they work nicely (Straightline Performance - - no longer available .... ) Whenever I'm ready for my next set of mufflers, it will probably be the tried-and-true Dynomax line. I've got those on my Biscayne, and the sound is PERFECT for me....... Just order the 4-4-2 W-30 headpipe kit, intermediate pipes, and the tailpipes with turndowns from Torque Tech, and you'll be set. You'll want to pay attention to the drivers side headpipe, as the opening on the pipe is 2 1/2", and the outlet on the manifold is a teenie 2". WITHOUT touching the manifold, I fixed that though ....... :bglasses:
Dynomax long bodies I also agree that the Dynomax sound is far superior to the straight through or the "Mustang" sound of Flowmasters. Casey put the system he described on my Ramrod and the sound is perfect even without an H or X pipe. (Thanks again). Biscayne sounds awesome when it's pulling through the gears. The straight through W31 reminds me of my misspent youth in the hills of Kentucky. :Brow: Kinda like "Thunder Road". Use the long body Dynomax mufflers, they even look OEM....well almost......kinda like OEM on steroids. LH headpipe hits the lower control arm bracket on the frame pretty hard on small block Olds. You can either live with that or "massage" the pipe in that area. I live with it. We also had to loosen and shift the fuel tank slightly to clear the one tailpipe.
thanks guys. you know, I think I might try the dynomax mufflers, just to try something different. I'll have to look at the website again, but I thought there was a specific listing for small block cars versus getting the 442 w-30 setup you mentioned casey. of course, I think I recall you stating the reason the big block setup fits the small block is because you did it.
So I take it that the outlet of the small block pass side manifold is approx. in the same spot as the outlet on the big block dual exhaust manifold ?
The outlet in the LH manifold is very close to the same position as the big block. It's a little lower and closer to the centerline of the car. Same goes for the RH side. That's because of the approx. 1 inch deck height difference in the small block and the big blocks. Heads are dimensionally the same, exhaust locations close enough. As I mentioned above, clearance around the lower control arm frame bracket is tight on small block cars with the bigger pipes. The reason Casey suggested getting the system for the Big Block W30 is you get larger pipes at the manifold. As he said, the outlet on the LH manifold is only 2 inch dia (RH is 2 1/4). The 2 1/2 inch pipe will seal OK on the RH, but too large to seal on the LH as is. That's where he "fixed" it.
Well I have a set of the SB manifolds of my 71 and I was going to temp use them on my BBO 86 if the manifolds are close enough. I thought it looked close but I don't have a set of BBO dual manifolds to compare to. Can you disclose the "fix" for the driver side?:grin:
Here's all I did .... pretty easy. Since the 2.5" headpipe on the drivers side won't mate to the 2" ball portion of the driver's side manifold, I cut a short piece of 2.25" pipe (2-3" long), and had one end swedged to mimick the socket end of the 2.5" headpipe. Then, I just *tweaked* the 2.25" *insert* until it made a nice interference fit into the 2.5" pipe. This way, the 2.25" insert is what actually mates to the manifold, and then dumps right into the mandrel bent 2.5" headpipe almost immediately. *** When I say *tweak*, I mean that I opened up the 2.25" pipe ever-so-slightly on a pipe machine until it had an interference fit.
Jamie: I know you can't put big block Olds manifolds on a small block engine (may get lucky on the LH side with a solid motor mount), but RH is a complete no go. I don't know about putting small block manifolds on a big block, even for a mock up. I'm thinking the outlets will be way too far outboard due to the increased deck height of the BBO. There is no small block dual exhaust RH manifold available for Olds (except a diesel). My suggestion would be to get a pair of Toronado manifolds and have the outlets rotated to the stock position and rewelded. They are humongous and relatively inexpensive since no one uses them. The outlets are rotated about 90 degrees as compared to a stock one, so a good 45 degree "baloney" cut should let you reposition it in exactly where you'd want it to connect to the headpipes in the stock location. I can bring a pair to Norwalk. I also have a RH "Z" and a LH "X" BBO manifold that each need a little repair. I think they're from a 73-75 442. Z has a boss broken on the front bolt (otherwise beautiful), and the X has a burn through in the chamber divider between the the #3 and #5 cylinders. Will also have them at Norwalk, lots cheaper than repops. Somebody like Greg Gessler could easily modify the Toros or repair the X and Z and maybe clean up the insides a little while he's there (you know, carbon buildup, casting flash, etc. :Brow: :Brow:
I'll be at Norwalk too. With my daily driver, no racing for me Send me an email with how much you'd want for the manifolds and I'll run it past "The Boss":grin: Are you bringing the 68 ? My email is vista461@wi.rr.com Thanks
very interesting. the torque tech website says they are 2.5" exhaust systems. obviously they are not FULL 2.5" exhaust systems then if there is head pipe differences. so I make this "adapter", which is what seals the headpipe to the manifold. the gases flow from the manifold through the 2.25" pipe which is wedged into the 2.5" headpipe. I take it the exahust manifold flange on the 2.5" headpipe is what is used to bolt the headpipe to the exhaust manifold. thanks casey :TU:
Well I have gotten two different sets of crossover manifolds on the BBO in the G-body. The first set I had were the 71 350 ones. I used a 455 crossover pipe and used the 350 downpipe off the Vista. The downpipe was really too short between the manifold and the bend. after the bend it was just contacting the floor of the car. Didn't like that. So then I put on a set of crossovers from a 76 Custom Cruiser with a 455. Had the same drivers side manifold (#1 if I remember right) but the pass was like the 307 style with the straight down dump instead of the angle like the 71's. Suprisingly the rest of the 307/442 exhaust bolted right up and clears the floor. But I want true dual and don't want to choke my fresh 455 with the tiny stock VIN9 exhuast. So that's why I thought if the manifold exits are approx. the same between the 71 350 style and the Dual BBO style . I would try that for a bit.:grin: However if I could get a deal on some BBO dual manifolds that's even better. :Brow:
True duals on a Gbody I had a custom true dual system put on a 79 Supreme with a 68 350 with the stock 68 cast manifolds (#1 and #4). They ran the LH side across the bottom of the engine in the same path that the crossover took, but then ran it parallel to the RH head pipe under the trans crossmember. It then crossed over to the LH side just before the mufflers and over the axle and dumped right behind the rear tire. Life sure would have been easier and cheaper with a notched crossmember so we could keep the system on the LH side all the way back. Outlet positions of the stock manifolds on that 350 were fine although a little tight on the drivers' side. System looked like a Nascar system underneath and sounded great. That was a fun car. I'll bring the X and Z manifolds as well as a pair of Toro manifolds to Norwalk to show you what I mean. Both would need some cast iron welding to repair the former and relocate the outlets on the Toros. Toro outlet is 2 1/2, so no problem necking down the pipes there.
:grin: No doubt, but manifolds are a world easier to install on a small block Olds than headers. Headers are a royal pin in the ass on the drivers' side with the starter motor. Much easier on a big block Olds in the same chassis. Go figure. o No:
