Gim, I don't recall a 455 ever being mentioned in this thread. The only point I made was that SBB heads can be made to flow very well. Even as well as other aftermarket small block heads. The original poster asked for information on how to get a "performance 350 head". Going off that, I showed how the stock iron head can fit the bill. We have no idea what his build really is. Ok? JW's Level 1 350 is an accomplishment, but it is VERY MILD! That combo should not be used to judge the performance of ported heads. The first chance I get I am going to can this 212 cam in favor of a mean lunati cam, and you better believe my nice irons are going yield me more than 30 more HP versus stock. Haterade, let's get some details on your 350:Brow:
What your saying is if he wants a performance boost now and will pay for it, go for it. However if the price doesnt seem reasonable for the potential performance boost (which, cmon isnt THAT huge) then maybe he would be happier installing the heads on his car and drive it until something different is available. Basically saving the money to use towards aluminum heads instead of spending it on porting. Its good performance now or wait a while and save some money and get even better performance later.
It's not anybody's problem, it was a good comparison.:Smarty: The Chevrolet Edelbrock heads were not much better. Oh ok, they don't flow well huh? Then how come so many people buy that stuff?
They didnt flow very well, eventually Edelbrock had to make a few improvements to a poor design to be a truely competative head and not simply not a stock replacement. So many people buy that stuff because they dont know any better. All average joe knows is that Edelbrock is a big name so it must be good stuff right? not so much..
Its perfectly valid. He was comparing iron 455 heads to aluminum 455 heads, buick to buick. If anything your comparison is an invalid one! Your comparing 350 buick heads to small block ford heads :spank:
Ok, well I used the last flow sheet edelbrock posted, so I would assume that's their latest models. So you think you know better than everyone? I don't think so. The public eventually figures out what works and what doesn't. Edelbrock is unmistakeably a successful company. I don't know a tremendous amount about the other small blocks, other than a stock SBC I have with a fantastic edelbrock intake, but I do have access to edlebrock's head's flow numbers. We are also waiting on this super 350 your going to build with TA's secret weapons. :laugh: I hope no one is taking this argument personally, I'm just a fan of a good 350 debate.:beers2:
No one is interested in ANYONE'S 455 heads here! It wasn't in the original question and it is in the wrong forum. And so what if I compare to SBF heads? There aren't any aftermarket SBB heads, so there is nothing wrong with comparing to another engine's aftermarket heads for a general idea. I wish someone would answer jamyers's question. That is definitely worth exploring.
The Edelbrock's may not be much better than your ported stockers, but there are way better heads out there. Quick glance over AFR heads for small blocks, and look at the 195cc street SBC offerings. For about 200 bucks more than the Edelbrocks, you can step up to a far superior head out of the box. Right now this isn't possible for a SBB, but down the line I think TA will do justice to these motors with a set of heads that flow well out of the box, with potential to embarrass the irons when equal effort spent porting. And I do agree with Jim to some extent. Saying 450 hp with no power adders is easy with ported heads is very irresponsible. There are a lot of other variables involved. Getting to 450 hp even with ported heads isn't going to be easy, or cheap. If it were, you'd be there already with all the mods you've done.
Believe me, I would LOVE to see TA embarrass the iron heads, but that hasn't happened yet! If anybody is going to make 450 HP NA, then it is going to be ME! We will see after I swap cams. Unfortunately, that project is time consuming and I just started another semester at Bama. However, I don't think it will be too difficult.
As Haterade is a newer member I think he should understand that the engine build that Jim Lore is refering to is fairly mild. 350HP and 400lb-ft isn't really that special. A 70 SP1 code 350 which has the smaller exhaust valve is rated at 315HP@ 4800RPM and 410lb-ft@3200RPM without headers and a port job. Jim Wiese states that this was a "Cruising Around" build. The last time I checked the pricing for Aluminum Head for the 455 was a lot more than a port job on iron heads. Unless you are going racing a port job on the iron heads will most likely be both less expensive and up to the job. Why spend $2500 on aluminum if $1000 on your iron heads will do what you need?
A. i don't have any problems making h/p with jim burek's ported heads. B. i don't have problems going 7500rpm with a single plane intake. C. i don't know what i am talking about and you do.
It would seem to me that the amount of additional HP porting produces would be directly related to the rest of the engine build. Porting on a stock or near stock engine would have little effect, but if you have an agressive cam, headers, etc. porting makes a big difference. If youv'e reached the limits of HP you can make with stock heads and want more then you either need to resort to porting or add a power booster (turbo or supercharger) to increase the airflow. It all comes down to your wants/needs vs what you want/can afford to spend.
I can only presume you have a built up engine like I will have when its done and I would think you'd benefit from a hydraulic roller cam. My heads peak around .600 or so and just hover there if I remember correctly so im planning on getting the lift to that area very fast and for a while :TU:
It's pretty common knowledge that a certain cfm will support a given horsepower level. Buick 350 heads have been ported to flow right in the middle of where most SBC aftermarket heads will flow. No, they won't be equal to AFR or the new (whenever that happens) TA heads. But, they are right up there with some of the dart heads and Edelbrocks. The only difference is that, once maxed out, there will be nowhere to go from there, whereas the aftermarket heads will likely have room for more porting. A question: Can ANY 350 ci small block with a flat tappet cam make 450hp and idle like a stocker? I've yet to see one of any make that isn't moderately cammed get to that level. The only exception may be the LSX series motors (which have a roller cam). Here is an example out of summit of a 420hp kit for a Chevy 350. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS-K314-420-395&view=32&N=700+115 Check out the cam specs: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS-31401001 228/234@.050" on a 110 center is not a smooth idling cam for a small block. I would even go out on a limb and say that ANY smallblock at the 450-500hp level with nearly any available head will need a fairly good sized cam. Here is another example. This one has GOOD heads: http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/hrdp_0609_500hp_small_block_chevy_build/index.html Check out the cam specs on THAT build! Duration, 0.050 tappet lift: 260/268 degreesLobe displacement angle: 106 The Buick 350 heads, properly ported, should support a 500hp build (with the TYPICAL componenets needed, such as a larger cam, headers, intake, etc.) I think Cason has a point. ________ Uggs
Second the above thought. Go with a set of iron heads, Their is nothing wrong with them. They make good power and no one makes an aluminum head (period). It's hard to bench race a product that is vaporware until it is actually in production or in use.
I probably would benefit from a roller cam. However, I'd like to see some other 350 guys use one before I do. I'm not a fan of trying new stuff out, with the exception of my intake:Brow:. Also there is the question of cost. Making a flat tappet cam work is no problem so if a roller cam is twice the money, I'm not interested. Looking forward to the release of those cams:TU:
Like others are saying the iron heads can support well over 500 hp after porting. Sonny Seal made close to 600 hp and over 550 ft of tq with a NA Buick 350, and TXGS made 450 with a street 350 as well Rob Margels 551 hp 10:1 350 and Bill Mahs mid 500 hp ALL IRON 350 at 8:1 compression (iron intake and heads and 1000+hp with boost). There is no question that when or if TA ever builds an alum head it will kick serious but.... Untill then we will march on, add boost, nitrous, or RPM in Jonnys case!
