Give me the spec you would like on a distrib. machine when recurving a 400E distrb. for street performance while still using vacuum advance.
I would put 10 distrubutor degrees centrifical into it (20 engine degrees), all in by 2400 engine rpm. That will give you an initial timing of about 15 and total of 35. You can experiment with that by driving the car at WOT with the vacuum advance pluged and see how it performs and if it pings. The big initial timing really helps the throttle response, especially if you have some mods done to the motor. If you find that you need more than 35 total, then your initial gets up in the 15+ range and the car may be hard to start. Then you need to add a little more centrifical advance back into the distributor, maybe 12 degrees. Use an adjustible vacuum advance, and AFTER the centrifical is all dialed in you can adjust it for maximum advance without pinging at part throttle loads. Good luck! :3gears:
Jim: Joel's right on the money on the timing. Casey can confirm (he has done a lot more of this and has his own distributor machine). He goes to the PS races with 7 different setup distributors labelled Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, etc. kinda like his BVD's...... :laugh: Triple carbs won't affect this. Only possible thing is a potential for a whole lot more vacuum leaks which will definitely affect your vacuum advance if you run it, and especially idle performance. Leaky butterflies or misadjusted secondary carbs and linkage also do the same thing. My past experience with tripower systems (it's been a while, and was on 389 and 421 Pontiacs and a 348 Chevy...theory is the same) was to tune and resolve problems with only the center carb functional, then bring in the secondaries for WOT only. A good vacuum gauge is invaluable. Fortunately, Olds didn't use the vacuum controlled secondary carbs.
What cam are you using, Jim? If there's enough cam, it may like even more initial than Joel recommended. One easy way to experiment with this (or even leave it this way permanently) is to hook up your vacuum advance to manifold instead of ported vacuum; this engages the vacuum advance at idle, This may improve both the idle and the off-idle response.
Brian I have to check the one. It is a Wolverine that I think is a line of Crane now. Dave H may know since he had a hand in this car. Dave H. You are right on about the vacumm leaks. I am almost all the way there now. Just one more to chase as soon as I get a 45 degree fitting with a spear for the center carb. The 90 degree one that came with the carb. will not get tight enough before bumping the back of the carb. Dave I have the factory set up sheets now. There are more tang and rod adjustments than you can shake a stick at. I am just about there. I have to get the distrib. rebuilt recurved nd the crane vacuum installed. I need a spare 66 distrib to do this. Anybody got one they would let go?
Jim: I don't recall the specs on that Wolverine cam, seems to me Gary said it was a W30 replacement. ??? o No: o No:
I am looking for the info now. Reached CM for an assist. I would like to see our two black cars side by side sometime. Which car are you taking to YO this spring?
Ok I found th e cam info Dave . It is a Wolverine Blue Racer PN: WG-1074 At .050" Duration intake 224 degrees and exhaust 224 degrees. Lift Intake= .496" Exhaust .520 total Centerline 107 degrees intake and 117 degrees exhaust Cam 5 degrees advanced Overlap = 71 degrees Deck height averaged to .020 " W30 valve springs CR= 10.41 to 1
Fingers are still crossed to make YO at all, but it would have to be the Ramrod. Engine is progressing, may be OK. Fortunately the rest of the car is ready to go. Had wanted to convert to manual steering and detail the front end, but not going backward any more. 66 is still in bodyshop prison, but getting closer all the time. Doors were hung yesterday and fenders are almost ready for finish paint. Body and doors are all clearcoated and just need final color sand and buffing. Hood and trunk still need a few holes filled (had to change the hood and ended up with a Cutlass hood with the center spear. Car rolled off the ramps one time and imbedded the stock, mint original 442 hood into the drywall in my garage Ouch). Bumpers are done, going up to get them next week. Engine's almost ready. All else is ready to go. They'll be neat to show together. They were both owned by the same guy here at one time. Only real difference is the A/C. Wish I had it. See the black convertible in HMM? Very nice. Not sure about that rallye pak story, but what the heck. Parts would have been in the plant when that car was built for the pilot production of the 67 cars (ever tell you about the triple yellow 67 W30 convertible that I saw in the appearance room in summer '66?) I wanted to go up and lick it or take a bite out of the seats. It was a pilot production car and couldn't be sold, and eventually got Squished!
Jea just missed that car by a day . We knew about it. That car and Jea's red 66 convert L69 were supposedly specially ordered by the same dealership. The black one had shoulder harnesses. I tried to buy it once but that guy wants someone to trade him even a frame off 70 w30 4 speed. Not likely. Speaking of triple yellow cars I saw one at the Mn Olds Nationals this year including with the yellow top. Apparently one producer still makes the yellow material for the top. It was the first one I ever remember seeing then or now. Patton and Jea were there. Maybe they can chime in because no one will believe it.
I was never a big fan of Saffron Yellow, but that car really was neat. Those yellow seats and yellow top really were unique. It had red lines and P05's. There was also a triple yellow 67 W30 hardtop in the engineering test fleet when I started there full time in early 68. Tried to buy it, but couldn't be sold. Last I saw of it, the body had been pulled from the frame and was sitting on the salvage pile with the front clip right beside it. I got a call from the junkyard in St. Johns Michigan that bought that "scrap" asking if I wanted to buy it for $750 without a VIN. Strange things going on at that time with salvage sales and ended up shutting it down for good. What a loss. You wouldn't believe what we were buying there as they cleaned out the plant and parts warehoses. GM consolidated the parts warehouses with the formation of GMPD and unbelievabel stuff was obsoleted and scrapped. Prior to that, Olds (and the others) ran their own warej=houses and kept a lot of excess production stuff in the plant for future supply to the service warehouse. That all became scrap overnight and we really cleaned up. Complete engines from aircleaner to starter fully dressed out for $325, 4 speed transmissions for $25, W27 axle covers for $1.50, dealer install accessory kits (RH mirror, LH remote mirror, power antenna, cruise control, etc. etc.) for $1. Recall a huge box of the UHV ignition modules and distributors for $5.
I met a guy here in Grand Rapids who used to work for the scrapping operation in Lansing. He recalls sending out stacks of aluminum W-30 and W-31 intake manifolds to be melted into more useful things like soda cans. :shock:
Brian Do you know how the cam specs I posted above for the Wolverine compares with the stock W30 cam? If I recall it was called a 308 or something like that.
Lift is much higher than stock mild W30 or W31 (.474 and .475). Not sure I understand the differences in lobe centers on exhaust and intake, but the W31 (308) was a 113 lobe center from the factory. Not sure about duration numbers @ .050. Those specs sound very similar to the Lunati Bracketmaster/EdelbrockPerformer RPM grind. That's a modern tech cam with less duration (more vacuum, smoother idle) but more lift. They work better with the lower compression engines today with the crappy gas and thicker replacement headgaskets. I think the early W30 cams 66-67 were very similar to the W31's as both were known as 308 (advertised duration). Starting in 68 on 4 speed W30 cars, they came out with the 328 cam which was really nasty. They used the W31 cam in the Hursts and the automatic W30's in later years. Standard 442 cams were much milder.
Jim you can go to Supercarsunlimited's website where they list the cams offered for Olds 442 and W-30 cars. You should be able to match your specs with theirs to get a pretty good idea as to what cam you have. Doesn't sound like a 66 W-30 but I don't know for sure.
Jim, all I have to go by is the Olds FAQ info, which gives the exact same specs for the '66-67 W-30 cam as Dave's Ram Rod/W-31 cam. They switched part numbers though, so something must have changed. Like Dave said, his lobe separation (ouch -- that's gotta hurt!) is 113 degrees, with the intake CL at 112 and the exhaust CL at 114. Your cam, since it's 5 deg advanced has both centerlines at 112, for a lobe separation of 112. Pretty even there. My calibrated guess says that your .050 duration is very slightly less or nearly equal to that of the 308 factory cam. (I know the Olds 328 deg cam had 244 duration at .050.) The difference is that your overall duration is slightly less (note your 71 deg overlap vs 82 for the factory cam despite nearly equal lobe separation) and your lift is significantly higher. So if you can picture it, your lobes are positioned just like Dave's, uzzled: but they're taller and slightly skinnier and thus have steeper ramps. Like Dave said, your cam is a more modern grind. But I wouldn't change any of the distributor curve advice you got above. Keep an eye out for detonation; if it happens, you can decide between better gas or thicker head gaskets.
