oh alright, also if i go to a pull apart looking for a 4bb for my 231 v6 are there any signs i should look for to not buy it? like worn marks or something like that?
Just make sure you get a even fire intake not an odd fire. Google buick even fire intake casting numbers or 4.1 buick casting numbers to find out what you are looking for.
okay, thank you guys so much for all the help This weekend my hunt is on for new parts! now the big question, what price range would i be looking at for an intake from a pull apart?
If it were me, and this was my original game plan until I found a 455 carb to oil pan for $250, would be to get a Buick 350, put an RV cam in it (or similar) and eventually swap in a 2004r trans (that is also practically a no extra swap with the TH200 you should have now, just some lock up converter switches, I don't think you even have to modify the driveshaft). Then you'll have pretty decent power and mpg's in the mid-20's. Perfect starving college student car with some decent oomph. That was my original game plan. Looking at engines sitting out, I check three things. Pull the dipstick and inspect the oil on it, looking for metal, water, etc. Second make sure the engine spins by using the right size socket and a breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt. Third if they let you, pull the valve covers and look for signs of neglegence, sludge and/or metal. If all three of those things look good, your odds of having a decent running or at least rebuildable engine are much better. Spark plugs may or may not tell you the condition of the short block, could of just had a crap tune or ignition system for too long, doesn't hurt to look at them, but I'm more weary of them.
Well it looks like he's already removed the motor. Perhaps you could call him up and see if he'll take $300 for the motor, assuming it's an actual GS engine (get him to photograph the numbers if possible, or at least write them down and email them to you). In theory he starts parting it tomorrow anyway.
**Also, I'm a big fan of doing things TWICE =P I'd take an engine if those three things look good, pull the oil pan and valve covers, look at the main bearings and if they look decent, replace the rear main seal, put new oil pan and valve cover gaskets on it (timing cover gasket too if it looks like it was leaking) and drop the engine in and see how it runs. If it runs like crap or has a knock, then you're only out a few bucks in gaskets and some work installing/removing an engine. Otherwise you have a running bigger engine for pretty cheap.
Been there, done that! Don't get carried away with a later model 4BBL intake. Your engine MAY be an even-fire, I think they actually started in 1978, but Buick did raise the ports on the 231 around 1979. This means the later 4BBL intake won't fit right on your early 231. They didn't make a factory 4BBL for the early engines. In the early 80's I had a '75 Skylark SR with the 260 V8 with the infamous Dual-Jet "1/2 Q-Jet". Smoothest running V8 I ever saw but the slowest. Ran 19.7's at the drags. I decided to install a '67(?)225 2BBL V-6 in it. I installed a KBMK1 cam in it and a set of KB shorty headers. It ran an "astounding" 19.3 and a few mph better than the V8. Slow as all heck off the line being shackled by the stock converter and 2.73 gears in a car that weighed near 3600 lbs without me. The hatchback and SR option really added weight. The car was a bit more exciting to drive though because now you could easily rev it up to 5000+ and would actually chirp the tires 1-2 at about 60 mph. After awhile with that I stepped up to a stock '69 Buick 350 4BBL with mild cam and Hooker headers and with the same driveline it ran 14.4@94. I piddled around a few years ago with a 252V6 in a '83 Regal Wagon. I replaced the factory 4BBL intake with a Weiand and a mild Wolverine cam and it really woke it up. Never got around to headers. According to my Vericom on the street it went from low 20's to low 19's in the quarter which just made it feel a whole lot better. What it comes down to is that you can throw a ton of money into a normally aspirated V6 but unless you get serious and rev it up it will never make any decent power. BIG cam, heads, gears and converter plus compression boost will make power but for the cost of a stock 350 you'll probably still be ahead. Weight of the car will always be against you. Here's what I would do if you wanted to add some excitement to the V6 you have. Weiand, Edelbrock, or KB 4BBL intake. Mild cam upgrade. Headers. Watch the exhaust size. Dual 2" with x-over or at least H-pipe and quiet mufflers will do because the engine won't flow much air and if you go with a louder muffler it will be obnoxiously noisy. V-6's don't sound particularily good when thay are loud. Get a converter into it. Maybe something like a cheap 3000 stall 10" which would be lighter and allow the engine to rev up faster and get you out of the hole quicker. Shift Kit in the trans to add some zing when you shift. Don't forget to recurve the distributer and upgrade the HEI ignition parts. You could also consider after doing the above stuff a small 75-100 HP N2O could be addeed. The engine would take it no problem for occasional use. I got my later engine stuff off E-Bay so search there.
i was just reading that they changed in 79, sadly i only have 1 pull apart locally so maybe this weekend i will venture out to other areas and look for one.
mike, we took out the 350 on the yellow car and put in a v6 for the fun of it. if you remember it was my son's tan skyhawk. he beat on it hard. its a 252 , .060 over, no head work, mild cam, around .460 i think, k-b intake, 600 holley, headers. now the yellow car has 4.56's, 3500 stall, trans brake and the huge 31 x 10.5 slicks. it will spin the slicks :laugh: . saturday at lebanon, it went 14.08 @ 94 mph. john said the tach was at 6500 rpm at the end. i was laughing pretty good at it. damn tough little engine. noraarm, if you want to build a v6, find a 4.1. no substitute for cubic inches.
Have a look at the back of the block and give us the casting numbers from the block just in front of the trans. I bet your v6 is an even fire, but give us the numbers and we can tell you forsure. Take a pic of the engine too and post it.
i just took my 76 skylark 231 oddfire to bowling green tonight i was in the 12's (in the 8th) it ran 19.099@69.45 stock motor with 83,000 miles 2 bbl i think i was the slowest car of the night and the car weight was 3756 lbs with me in the car scott
here is a pic of the engine i have from the other day, i will try to get numbers soon. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Aaronisbest/DSCN2436.jpg
You have the evenfire engine by the looks of it... You could bolt on a set of 80s v6 heads and intake I am pretty sure.
If the engine is original then it definately is an even fire. To find out easier than looking for engine numbers would be just pop the distributor cap off, remove the rotor for easier viewing, and see if the points on the pick-up coil (six of them) are evenly spaced. If they are evenly spaced it's even fire, if they are oddly spaced then it's an odd fire.
I don't know why I was thinking Aaron's car was a '77 but since his is a '78 it is an even-fire engine. That was the year it was introduced across the line. Scott, way to go on getting hard data! I remember the heady days when I lived close enough to the dragstrip to take anything over and race it. Didn't matter how it ran, just had to race. Yours being quicker than my non stock setup was makes sense. Mine was even heavier(!)because it was the SR and I still had the V8 torque converter behind a V6 which means the stall speed was even lower for slow going off the line. (If I knew then what I know now.) You're a recurved dist. or some good air away from an 18! Good info for you Aaron on what you can expect from a stocker. Just about anything you do to it will help it go faster.
www.buickperformancegroup.com has a v6 specific forum area . just looked at it quick , its got some dif info . also , in the late 70's i think , hot rod mag did a series about modin' a v6 regal using road/nascar suspension etc and nascar/hot rod engine mods . nice wheels and custom paint and had cale y. test drive neck and neck with some busch v6 cars at a track . did real nice too . del ## edit ## don't know if they go back that far online ? i should ( if i can dig deep enough ) have copies if needed . take me awhile . another mag did one of those motors NA and put it into a vega wagon . i think that ran good too according to what they said .
i finally found a intake in my area, its a V6 Kenne-Bell 4 bbl intake manifold. Model Kenne-Bell-1, i cant find anywhere online that tells me what 231 they fit. does anyone know if it fits the early 231 even fires?
I would buy an intake manifold gasket and compare the ports to the gasket... Then you will know for sure.
I'm going to bet it'll fit. I'd do as Sean says and check the gasket alignment. The even and odd fire engines have different intake gaskets, but I think it may only be for the exhaust cross over, which may be deleted in the kenne-bell intake o No: I bolted a 4bbl kenne-bell intake of unknown part number to my odd-fire 231, and had problems getting the the small AFB carb I got for it sealing at the base (my blantent inexperience/ignorance at fault there). Otherwise I don't recall any intake sealing issues, or didn't notice them.....
