I put 2 " drop spindles on my 65 Skylark....the wheels are leaning in at the top edges towards the motor and leaning out on the bottom edges of the tires away from the motor.... sort of like like the letter "A" ..... I am assuming this is fixed by shimming the a arms....do I need more shims in there or less shims in there to bring the top of the tires out towards the fenders ? I want to roughly get it right before heading to an alignment shop . Thanks J.
take the same amount of shims out from front and rear of the arm to bring the top of the wheel away from the engine
Well I pulled the shims out of the upper control arms and it made things 100% on one side BUT the other side is still visibly -way off...the tire still leans in at the top towards the motor . Are lower A arms shimmable ? What do you do when you have pulled all upper A arm shims out and the top of the tire is still leaning in towards the motor / not level ? Is it possible its the new coil springs at fault ? One side is o.k. though ? Compressed length is supposedly the same on the new springs , Any insight appreciated...... J.
Probably sounds like a cop-out as far as advice goes, but I wouldn't mess with it...I'd find a good alignment shop and get toe & camber adjusted properly. Devon
Have you checked the ball joints and all control arm bushings? If so and if only the axle height is different from your stock spindles and the springs are the same height you should be OK. If not, you may end up buying special upper control arms. All the parts must work together in the front end or you'll have trouble aligning it. If you don't have alignment tools you might as well take it to the alignment shop at this point like Devon said. That is if they're a good shop and not one that will tell you, "we can't align it because it's been modified."
If you take out shims, that will make the effect you want, which is more positive camber. However, that will change your toe in and you'll screw up your tires. What I would do, is remove as many shims as you need to IN AN EQUAL AMOUNT ON THE FRONT AND REAR BOLT. (if you take more from one than the other it will change the caster) Then take it to an alignment shop. Any shop that tells you they can't align it because it's modified would be an indication to me that they don't want the hassles of a comeback when your car isn't right. Go to a shop that is willing to try, but don't expect them to give you any kind of guarantee. Many of these guys who do alignments don't really understand the basics. From my past experience as an alignment tech, if you can get your camber up to at least "0" that would be good, but + 1/2* would be the spec that I would be looking for. Toe in should be at 1/8" for radial tires, and your caster is not very important with power steering as long as both sides are equal. The fact you used drop spindles should not necessitate any further changes to the suspension, because no other angles have changed.......all that has happened is that your front axles have theoritically been moved upoward 2". All that has really changed is the difference in tolerances from the new spindles as compared to the old. The camber and toe should not be off by too much as long as they are the correct part. Sagged springs will cause the suspension angles to change which can cause the negetive camber problem that you are describing. Perhaps you should change them first before trying to align it.......cars with sagged springs can't be aligned properly with or without drop spindles. :Smarty:
Thanks for the input..the springs are brand new units whos installed / compressed height should be correct. The passenger side looks to be correct- adjusted fine removing all shims...the drivers side is off. have read that you can buy special a arm cross shafts that have additional adjustment range ...Im thinking if I machine off a conservative 1/8 " of material from the cross shafts front and rear equally on the bad side and that should get the one wheel finally in spec...why its off I dont know ? Previous accident ? If I accidently take too much material off I could always put it back with shims. The 2" drop spindles are the only major change here and fresh springs . Do fresh "tall" springs need time to settle before an alignment is done ? Is the alignment off until those springs settle ? Maybe thats whats wrong why this one side is off one side had settled on has not...... thoughts ? Thanks J.
It's always best to let springs settle before doing the alignment, or at least do it over again after a few thousand miles. It's possible you may have one spring not installed properly.....if the end of the coil is not in the proper spot on the lower control arm, the height will be affected on that side, along with the angles built into the suspension. The main reason they are shimmed is to compensate for manufacturing tolerances, perhaps yours is close to the limits on one side. How do your upper and lower control arm bushings look? If one or more are off center that will certainly cause negetive camber. In my past experience doing alignments on GM cars, I don't think I ever had to leave all the shims out in order to bring the car into proper alignment. If your bushings are all good, I would say maybe you have a bent spindle, (that's what usually gives when you hit a bad pothole), but since yours are new I doubt that's the problem. The way to check that is to put it on an alignment machine that can check "KPI" (king pin inclination). That's the angle you would get when drawing a center line through the ball joints on one particular side as viewed from the front. If one side is way different from the other, the frame may be sprung out of whack but it usually indicates a bent spindle. (or a bent control arm, etc.) :Smarty:
I'm sorry to chime in here so late, but you guys sounded so confident I didn't want to say anything...:laugh::Comp: I don't have a lot of hands on experience with alignment but it sure seems intuitive to me that your would ADD shims to bring the top of the tires out. I mean, if you have an "A", you'd have to make that center bar longer to turn it into an "H", right? :idea2: That would be analogous to adding shims. K
hmmmmmmmm how do I say this.......lol. The upper a frame bolts to the inside of the mount on the chassis. Add shims, the tire goes toward the engine. Also sootie did get the desired results on one side but ran out of adjustment on the other. On another note Keith, I have my rear suspension apart and I have a plan and ordered some parts. I'll post on that thread when it's done...
One look under the hood will show anyone why removing the upper shims moves the top of the tire outboard. Devon
Ok - got it. On my car the A arm cross shaft is outboard of the frame attachment, so that's what I was thinking of. K
That would certainly explain the confusion! I'd forgotten that GM had done it differently depending on year/model. Devon
Andy, yes I ran out of adjustment on one side...the other appears to be fine......Joe I will check the spring registration today - like you said maybe its not seated right .....J
When you install new front coil springs it may take some time for them to settle to their proper height, at first the wheels do lean in at the top, mine did quite a bit, actually scared me and i was sure i had done something wrong. After about three months of moving the car around and finishing the restore it was perfect. If you picture the upper and lower control arms working together as you add weight to the front end, and this means all the engine dressings, bumper, hood, and everything right down to the last piece, you can see how the wheels would lean out at the top as you add the weight. As far as one side being higher than the other, try this. Shine a flash light up through the coils springs and make sure that the tops are in the pocket, usually the dead ringer is the coils spring looks very close to the opeing in the frame. If it is, take a pinch bar and pry it over, you will hear it slam into place. Caution, keep fingers out of way. But this is a common cause of one side being higher than other. Just my thoughts, because it has happened to me.
