Long Rod 300 Build

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by Duffey, Mar 6, 2018.

  1. Duffey

    Duffey Well-Known Member

    Sounds good Jim. So would I use the retainers, etc. from the same application or?
     
  2. Jim Nichols

    Jim Nichols Well-Known Member

    SBC Z28 springs and keepers/retainers. Bronze guide liners. I would cut down the guides for Viton seals too. Look at Alex'sparts for valve springs and seats.
     
  3. Jim Nichols

    Jim Nichols Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  4. Jim Nichols

    Jim Nichols Well-Known Member

  5. Duffey

    Duffey Well-Known Member

    Ah I see. Thanks a bunch Jim. You don't happen to know what mods I need to be doing to these blocks do you? Seems like I've asked a few times and I can't tell if its just been glossed over or if people don't know? I found a lot on BBBs but not much on SBBs.
     
  6. Jim Nichols

    Jim Nichols Well-Known Member

    Pretty much the same as the BB and V6. I like a little tighter bearing tolerances, .015 instead .002. T/A cam bearings, front cam bearing at least. T/A or Melling Oil pump booster plate. 60 lb relief spring or T/A adjustable relief valve. 5/8" pickup tube. I like the 350 lifters and later push rod oiling too.
     
  7. Duffey

    Duffey Well-Known Member

    Ok great, I was reading about chamfering main bearing holes and opening up other passages. Glad to know those aren't on the list of normal to-dos.

    I just measured the spark plug spacing. They are both the same size, but the hole on the chamber side is moved about .150 away from the center on the iron heads. I didn't pay close enough attention to see if they simply changed the angle of the plug or if the hole was moved.
     
  8. Jim Nichols

    Jim Nichols Well-Known Member

    Chamfer where the larger oil pump pickup bolts. Do the oiling mods you read about, that is a given with all the Buick motors. Check that the oil holes and the bearings match. I usually let the machine shop that does the boring hot tank/clean the block and install soft plugs and cam bearings. Usually if unknown I'll have them skim the block and heads to make sure the surfaces are flat.
    http://www.rowand.net/shop/tech/buickoilingimprovements.htm
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  9. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

  10. Duffey

    Duffey Well-Known Member

    Well that doesn't seem like $400 worth of work? Pottery kilns go north of 2000 degrees, I'm sure I could find someone who would let me stick the heads in there. The aging I could do at home when the wife is out. I wonder how bad the distortion would be? I'm thinking new guides and seats would be in order, which kind of debunks my idea of using the iron head valves and just having the intake seats replaced.
     
    8ad-f85 likes this.
  11. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    You can heat the heads to a fairly low temperature and clamp them to a flat surface over a time period to straighten them.
    I haven't tried using an engine block yet for that, there's a purpose built structure usually used that's really thick.
    In my area, ex-potter's nearly give the ovens away.
    I thought you would like the info with your level of motivation and creativity. (drink the water, drink the water...drink the kool-aid...no just kidding drink the water...)
    There's a Youtube series of vids to search from a really sharp machinist that shows many serious mods and how straightforward they can be. Search something about Fiat or warped aluminum heads?
     
  12. Duffey

    Duffey Well-Known Member

    I had the thought of just bolting them to my spare block and treating them that way, but most of the barrel kilns I've seen probably wouldn't fit something that large.

    I wonder about cutting the cylinder banks off? I had already thought about doing that to have a makeshift torque plate, maybe I could use the pieces for the torque plate then use them in the heat treating?
     
  13. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    If you are going to mess with cutting something apart, find some chunk of metal for free somewhere that isn't a valuable casting.
    I think the straightening temp is low enough to go into an oven or take the head from one or haze with a torch.
    If you have a bore gauge now, torque some head bolts through old wrist pins and check the distortion.
    That's worked forever before torque plates were available.
    Then check that against a bare block with a head bolted to it from underneath to see if the difference is worth messing with.
    I hesitate to cut blocks apart because of how straightforward crack repairs are with oven brazing and other tried and true methods not bothered with for these 'cheap' and easy to find automotive castings.
    For that matter, an oven is basically any stack of bricks/blocks with a lid, a door and a heat source.
    Kilns were't always electric and moveable.
    There used to be a lot of DIY brick stack/re-rod kits.
     
  14. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    What about something like this?
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/NASCAR-Car...ash=item5d79c5ffec:g:HawAAOSwrslaWA6L&vxp=mtr

    $82 for the full set, shipped. What would it take to make them work?
    2.010" Journal size, does that mean they are .010" oversized or that's the OD of the shell? I'd guess the big end width would have to be cut down. But you use those with a custom piston and you don't have to worry about the pin size or position. It could take a lot of the sting out of the piston cost.

    Jim
     
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  15. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Yeah those are nice Jim, only 480 grams per rod! That is about 200 grams per rod lighter than the cap screw rods!

    The journal size is without bearings, they probably used a cheap set of calipers to measure the bore, should be 2.008" HOUSING bore size. The good thing about the 2.008" housing bore size is that both the 1.850" AND 1.889" bearings are made for it!

    Seeing how they raised the price on the sbb AutoTec pistons because they got custom aftermarket factory size wristpins made for the newish Molnar rods you can have the pistons made from this listing instead to save some $;

    https://www.buyracingparts.com/pist...nverted-dome-pistons-3898-bore-3622-stro.html

    Same deal as the other pistons, bore, compression height, ring pack changes can be made at no addition cost, they don't mention wristpin size so that might cost a bit more but probably only if you got the sbb pin size?(would have to call and ask)

    And yes, the big end would have to be narrowed from the .890" to .845" all off of the non-chamfered side to give them close to the factory offset.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
  16. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    An easy way to guess the rod intentions is to subtract .125" from the bore.
    Not a hard rule but works with american stuff.
    Much was drawn up from fractional increments.
     
  17. Jim Nichols

    Jim Nichols Well-Known Member

    Valve seats : Precision # PC 1750-39 for 1.74" IN, # PC 1500-31 for 1.5" EX.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
  18. Duffey

    Duffey Well-Known Member

    Well the rods just got in! 6 are perfect and two of them have defects, but I don't know if they are significant or not. One has scarring in the small end while another has a chip out of the big end. Also, I provided a picture of one next to a 300 rod. I'm wondering if it will have any effect on my cam clearance or not?
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Jim Nichols

    Jim Nichols Well-Known Member

    The chip is a casting defect. Might be a good idea to touch with a drill to eliminate sharp edge stress risers. If you are using the Speed Pro pistons you will have to drill the small end out for a spacer tube anyway. Would be interesting to weigh to compare the difference.
     
  20. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Won't effect cam clearance with a 300 crank at all, the longer the stroke the less clearance, the shorter the more.

    Just chamfer the hole edge below the chip and brand new used.

    Cast iron is like glass, if you don't get rid of that chip a crack can form there while its running. Especially with bad harmonics from a bad balance or no balance job done.
     

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