I'm wanting to know at what point of lift preasure, or how much max lift can You go, untill you need to worry about reinforcing The lifter galley? Either by epoxy or girdle. Thanks, John.
I think you will be fine with hyd or solid flat tappet.The higher lift rollers is where i would use a girdle. Jamie
If you decide to reinforce the lifter bores I would recommend going with the girdle. I did the epoxy deal and after awhile it cracked allowing small particles to float around in my engine. I had two cylinders with heavy scoring and I believe it was form the epoxy. Now I have a .650 solid cam and no epoxy or girdle and no problems for two years now.
i think anything hi lift 530 lift + causes an increase in top end stress, wear on valve springs,breaking rockers bending pushrods ,solid lifters are just harsh on a valve train period peace of mind for lifter bore is a hyd with less than 530 lift in my book dont forget when loooking at the specs of a solid to take out the lash from the advertised lift,so if you get a 550 lift -28 lash your only 522 lift but with a solid you need the dual valve springs and roller rockers and good pushrods.he also said not to go crazy w/spring pressures like 100-110 closed for a hyd and 120-130 closed for a solid thats what my machinest suggests for a puick as he put it what you can get away with is diff. for everyone ken
Lifter bore thickness varies from block to block just like cyl. wall thickness. Check out this 72 block in the 1st/2nd pic. I have another 72 where the lifter bores double as thick where these are thin. The third pic is from a 76. Depends on the block as too many variations at the foundry can/did happen. Ray
Your right about the core shift and I assumed the block in question was in good shape. My block is much like your 72 block where the lifter bores have a good amount of material. Since I dont have a roller with very aggressive lobes I figured I could get away with no lifter reinforcement.
You DO NOT want a lifter girdle with a flat tappet cam. Any flex in the block under load with stop the lifters from turning in the bores and trash them. If the block is prepped correctly "JB weld in layers like plywood quote Mike @ AM&P " is best. Contact AM&P, Mike has done this numerous times. Check some other threads, I believe there are pics from AM&P's build-ups.
Alright! Thanks for the quick reply's, That eases my mind a lot. I would guess core shift would have a lot to do with what you need a block to do also. I think I got lucky with the block I got!? Thanks John.
Here us a picture of a street roller cam motor I am building. Its lifter bore is filled with Devcon liquid steel epoxy. Its only a Quart and really easy to work with. First I make small aluminum pieces that are epoxied to the openings of camshaft bore to seal the lifter valley. Then a set of old lifters are put in the holes, Level the block and pour the stuff in. The next day its hard as nails and you can cut some groves and drain back holes in it. It really strengthens the block, and I have never found 1 problem with it cracking. Much better and stronger then the steel lifter bore girdle in my race engine, that has to be adjusted regularly, the epoxy can be found online for around $100. There are a lot of blocks that sonic check good on the cylinders and the lifter bore is to thin for a roller cam. I have had no failures with this method.
dumb questions,whats stopping the used lifters to be forever epoxied in the valley?if coated w/oil or something,what is done after removal?are lifter holes then machined?or good to go is this done with cam and lifters installed? where do the alumn blocks come from do you cut and shape them from alumn. stock?pics would be great i really want to do this on the engine i will be assembling ken
First thin aluminum sheet metal is used to hold the epoxy in. I cut it with tin snips,shape it, and then epoxy it to the holes like you would a screen to keep debris from falling into the oil pan.Of course make sure the block is clean and rough up the surface with a stone on a die grinder. The next day after dry,old lifters are only lightly coated with oil and left high in the bores. No epoxy can get in the lifter bores its to thick. You mix the stuff together and pour it in. level the block and make it smooth. After about an 8 hours it will set up and you can pull all the lifters out by hand. The next day it will be fully cured and you can shape it and make holes. the lifter bores stay clean but u may want to shape the epoxy to be sure its not rubbing lifters. That's it, your done!
Do ya think that that might restrict the oil for getting on the cam were the t/a girdle leaves all the holes open? or is the oil from the lifters more than enough?
eds direct lube solid lifters,i just ordered a set you guys think i need to do this lifter bore reinforcement? heres my build up: 71 455 .050,sonic tested ,zero decked,hard block,10/10crank,stock re sized rods arp bolts,studded,srp flat tops,cometetic gaskets .030,calculates 12.0-1 well ported iron 430 stg 1 heads 1125 ta double springs,1.6 roller rockers,erson 3/8 pushrods,early kool runner intake match ported to heads with alot of clean up work done inside it,custom holley 950 schneider solid cam 585 lift 320 dur 110 l/c,265/276 @.050 degreed in +4 coated grooved cam bearings,engine was balanced. i know its recommended, but should i have to do it? actual lift minus lash is like 557,my machinest tried to get me to use a hyd. cam but i of course wouldnt listen.the heads are set up for a solid. can anyone make a horsepower guesstimate? i havent run it yet.waiting for spring .:spank: ken
I've been running similar cams (TA308S, now TA294-04F) for many years with no lifter bore reinforcement and no related problems. Granted, I'm not beating the snot out of it at the track every weekend, either. Devon
Ken, The lift of the cam is close to needing it. But some there are other reasons for needing one. Spring pressures (roller spring rates) max RPMs time at max RPMs Just because you have ******* does not mandate you need to install a lifter-bore girdle.
Oil is splashed up from the crank spinning to lube the lifters. The drain back from the heads is not going to hit the camshaft. So the open holes do nothing but weaken the block. Also I will warn you all to use TA performance roller lifters only!! He has the lifters inner side lengthened, by the wheel, so it does not bleed off allot of oil pressure on the Buick's pass side lifter bore. If you use cheaper Chevy lifters they are going to loose allot of oil pressure on a high lift camshaft!!! That is a big problem when you start with roller cams and high lift. A solid lifter does not do this. Trust me and do not buy any other lifters or you will be hemorrhaging lots of oil pressure away from the main bearings every time that camshaft lifts them to high.ou:
Hi Rob, Are you going to install external drains for the oil from the heads? I know several guys have done that, with this kind of Dev-con setup.. I would be worried if your draining back thru just that hole in the rear of the lifter galley, I think you might end up with a lot of oil trapped up there. I have worked with a couple guys who had that issue. Even an 8QT oil pan dries up on a 1/4 mile run.. Symptoms on 2 different cars were erratic oil pressure on the big end, and then an oil pressure warning light after the traps, on coast down. Both guys installed drains tapped into the back of the cylinder head, and routed to the pan, to resolve this issue. Interested to hear your experience with this.. JW
Hi Jim, I have a larger hole in the back of the block now, that picture was early, and there is a hole in the front also, behind the camshaft thrust area. I also make some channels to run oil back faster. I have not had any oil starve problems in my car, so i am confidant in it. I use TA's roller lifters so there's a bit of a restriction in them.
