It's Do or Die for my '67 Special - Looking for Advice

So I've had my 67' Special 300/2 up for sale for a while now, which I am advertising it as a parts/restoration car since it is not running, but now that I have a couple of interested buyers, I'm on the fence about selling it.

I love the way the body style looks, and I remember how nicely she drove when I picked her up in 2006, but if I can get the car to at least run I will definitely not sell it.

Here is my first thread for details about how the motor died (and hasn't run since): http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=155760 [Note: I don't know if I included this symptom in that thread, but in the few months I drove her before the motor died, it acted like it wasn't getting enough fuel or something - coughing/sputtering/hesitating when giving it throttle. Moderate/Hard acceleration was way worse, and it almost wanted to stall because it was coughing so bad. Maybe that info will help in a possible diagnosis?]

What I want to know in this thread is not necessarily what's wrong with my car - I have already asked that question in the above thread, but if you think you know please post your thoughts in it. I'll appreciate it! - but what steps do you recommend I take to prepare myself to diagnose and fix whatever may be causing the car to not run. Is there a manual you recommend? Now I don't mind putting in the time or effort, but using the trial and error method of fixing this problem will prove expensive if I continue to striking out, so should I forfit the (possibly expensive) learning experience and just get it towed to a garage for inspection?

I don't expect anyone to solve my problems for me, but I just want to get opinions as to what you would do if you were in my situation (with no experience with old power trains, and limited available funds).

 

I read through all the suggestions from the last thread and they covered the bases pretty well. I'm still thinking charging system, voltage regulator. The lights going dim and some of the other stuff that you listed sounds like charging system to me. Did you check the plugs for spark like suggested? An easy way is when you pull a spark plug wire you put a screwdrive in the boot, make sure it's tight in the brass terminal inside, lay it someware that it will be close to a good ground, but not touching. You can hold the screwdriver by the plastic handle, but I gather from your prior posts that you are not going to like doing that. Another thing that I didn't see brought up was the resistor. You should (I'm pretty sure) have a resistor on your ignition. It will be a white ceramic part about... 2 to 2 1/2" long with wire coiled around a core. It has one lead into it and one lead out. If this goes out you will be able to have gas... and I think ( I will be corrected if I'm wrong) spark while cranking, but not when the key is in the run position. You would probably be getting it to try and start if that were it, but it's a cheap part that would be worth checking.
As for selling or keeping the car, it sounds and looks like it's going to need quite a bit of work (that says money into it). You will need to do all the things that were listed in the last thread, change the oil, probably rebuild carb, points, cap, rotor, condenser, clean the gas tank and lines out, new fuel filters... All small stuff, but it adds up. Add that to the rust that it has and you have to decide what you want to do. I will tell you this much. I had some very cool rigs when I was younger and had to sell them because I couldn't afford the little things that an older car needs back in those days. You will regret selling the car if you like it as much as it sounds. You will probably need to have a second car if you get this running and want to be able to keep it. When you are young and broke little things like a starter or what ever can take a little time to get fixed, and if you only have one rig and have to get to school or work it's a killer. I'm not trying to tell you to sell it. Like I said if you like the car, you will regret selling it later, I am just trying to put out what I went through in my younger days. If you can afford to keep it and you want the car, don't be afraid to give it a little time. You can decide to sell it later.

 

Thanks for the detailed response. The buick's definitely not a car I would have to rely on for transportation, whatsoever, so that's something I've got going for me. It will purely be a weekend project. As you said, it's going to need a bunch of little things, at minimum, to get it running again considering it's been sitting for 3 years. I should have tried to mess with the problem three years ago, then I wouldn't have to worry about these other annoyances that are going to add up because the car's sat so long.

I would just keep it for brighter days, but regardless of how much money I have in the future, who wants to dump $xxxx into a car they won't be able to get running anyway? If there was a light at the end of the tunnel where I could just say, okay, it will cost $400 to get it road worthy, then I would at least be able to weight the pros and cons more. The thing is, if the next guy buys it from me for my asking price of $500, and gets it running with some time, effort, and only $150 in parts, I'm going to be quite irritated!

 

The $400 that you said could very well take care of all your issues, but you just don't know for sure. The kicker here is that you are going to need help, and if that is from a shop the cost will go up. It's a great car to learn all this stuff on. Very simple, fairly cheap to work on, and you don't need standard and metric tools to work on it. If I had it, I would be willing to bet that it could be back on the road for $400 or less. That would include new fluid and filter for the tranny and wheel bearings in addition to the stuff talked ablout before. If a car has sat for a long time there are certain things that you want to do to prevent things breaking. If you had a buddy that knew what they were doing, you may be able to trouble shoot in in an hour or two and learn a lot while doing it. Good luck to you.

 

Hey I agree, for alittle bit of funds you should be able to make her go. everything seams to be minor that you have discribed. Now for us with alittle bit more ablity to fix these it seams easy. Like David said if you have a buddy who can help, or a shop that you can trust you should be able to get your Special rolling again.

Even a good backyard guy should be able to get you down the road for $400.00. Don't give up and us this experiance to learn and develope more knowlage.

Good Luck!

Ross

 

The thing is, I do know friends of mine, or others who may be able to help me (one has actually offered), but when you ask them it's always, always excuses and putting me off. I really want to do this myself, because all who I have spoken with in passing or online have said that I can definitely do it. I do have experience working on modern cars (maintenance, bolt on performance, but nothing internal or dropping trannies/rear ends), so I'm not one to just bring my car to a shop before I take a crack at it myself.

I have full metric/standard sockets and a torque wrench, along with a variety of open wrenches and whatnot that have worked out well for me in the past.

I'm sure I can get another extra set of hands who has some experience if I just keep pressing those I know. But, if I am truly out of luck, do I need to break down and invest in a manual for the car? I saw one online for $80. I read a couple DIYs for distributor rebuilds, and I don't have the tools that seem necessary for a good rebuild - bearing press, and a distributor machine to dial in spark curve, I guess?

Here's the DIY: http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techa...ang_distributor_rebuild/distributor_gear.html

V8Buick seems very informative, but every time I open up a thread I get overwhelmed by terminology. It's hard to judge the overall picture if you don't get the basics. I just want to know if I should just delve right into getting this thing going and learn by trial and error, or what.

Thanks again.

 

Now you got me all excited to :3gears:

I hope I can get some kind of direction before I just start taking parts off and then asking, "what's this thingy do?"

Seriously, though....

 

Well, I see you are in CT. We have a ton of NE members, maybe if you post for "Help in the NE" on The Bench, someone with the needed experience may be close enough to donate some time helping you diagnose exactly what is wrong and how to get 'er running again.

 

I was thinking that, but I don't like inconveniencing anyone. I wouldn't even know what rate to offer them for their time. PM me with suggestions? Or post here. Whatever you think is most appropriate.

Thanks David.

 

Don't get overwhelmed.
I was once in the same boat as you. I picked up my first project about 14 months ago. I had some previous experience in changing oil, and sparkplugs, and that was about it. This has been a huge learning experience, and I am still working on it. Slowly but surely.
Here are 5 simple things I learned quickly

1)It is a huge help to have a factory manual. I would fork over the cash to get one!!!
2)I realized that if you wanted to get something done, don't rely on your buddies.
3)If you don't understand a procedure, or how something is done, ask questions!! Or Keep reading the manual, until you understand.
4)Research, Research, Research!! Everything from buying simple parts, to complicated swaps.
5)Just do it!

Hope this helps

 

Well, if you don't have a manual that's the first thing that you need. You don't need the $80 shop manual that you found. It may be over your head, and assume that you know more than you have. Look for a chiltons on ebay or craigslist that covers your year. On ebay type 67 buick, when ebay motors comes up, look on the left and pick whatever a book would be in. You may get a ton of hits, but if you narrow it down on the left you can find what you need. I would be suprised if it cost more than $25 or so for a used chiltons. You will probably get one with a green cover, that has like... 64 to 73 or something. It will have sections on each type of system in the car, each brand has specific sections, and models where the need to have sections. Just don't expet it to list a GS! Your car will be covered. It has trouble shooting sections (not great, but it has it), pictures, instructions.

 

Excellent to hear 64LeSabre455. I'm still not fully convinced that I will be able to troubleshoot this problem effectively given my limited knowledge, but I'll sure try. I'm used to plugging in diagnostic tools and they tell me where to look

David, I am looking for the manual now.

I'm sure this is covered in the forum, but on a side note, what kind of cars would have interchangeable parts for my '67 special when I (hopefully am able to) shift gears down the road to light restoration. I need such little things as turn signal light housings and reverse light housings. The car's pretty complete otherwise.

Taken about 2 years ago:



Sits a little lower now (suspension is beyond gone, and tires have deflated), and is a bit more moldy/rusty, but that's pretty much my Special.

 

Get a battery,charge it, install it and check for spark.You don't need a manual to do that.Seeing how it did run,you need 3 things, fuel-spark(ignition)-compression.The first 2 are easy to check for. Now get to work.

 

Alright, I've been looking for an hour for the Chilton. I'm coming back for assistance on this one.

 

http://www.faxonautoliterature.com
This is where I got mine.
It has proven to be invaluable.
Well worth the money. IMHO!

 

The only thing I can find are new 1967 GM manuals for around $70.00.

Or, I can go with Detroit Iron's shop manual on CD. The GM manual is available on CD, as well, but it is not compatible with a Mac. That is about $50.00, so I may as well just get the printed version above.

I'm not even finding the Chilton manuals. I'm not even sure spending the money on the GM manual will be a good idea, as 1967GS340 mentioned that it may be too technical in nature for someone new like me.

Should I start a thread looking for the Chilton manual on here?

 

Go to the local library. Ask them where they keep the Chilton's manuals. Ask for a Chiltons or Motors manual for 1967. Look up Buick Special. Read. Copy the pages you think might help. Total cost, about a buck and a little time.

The information you need IS in the troubleshooting thread you referenced above. There is also a lot of extra info that you don't need. Concentrate ONLY on making it run, even for a very short time. Once it does that and you can repeat it it gets a lot easier to decide what else needs to be done.

Put a good battery charger on it and make sure the battery has had enough time to fully charge. Keep it connected while getting the engine to start.

Fuel, spark, and compression. That's all you need to run. Check spark first. I would pull the coil wire from the distributor and plug a spark plug into it and lay it on the intake so it is grounded and you can see the gap and then have someone crank the starter while you watch it. No fire, no run. Got spark, check it at one or more of the plugs. Got spark? Move on to fuel.

Prime the engine. Take a short big handled screwdriver and stick it in the top of the carb to hold the choke butterfly open. Pour about 2 ounces of gas down the throat of the carb. That's the big hole in the top. Hold the throttle wide open. Crank the starter for about 30 seconds. Crank it again. Again. Again. Again. Prime it again. Crank it again. Again. Again. Again. Again. Again. Again. Again. Repeat entire sequence twice.

If no run, buy a compression tester. Harbor Freight sells them cheap. Follow the instructions and check compression on all cylinders with throttle wide open. Write down the numbers and bring them here.

That's all for now.

Jim

 

Here's a few manuals on ebay. All pretty cheap. I like the last one. I've got a copy of that one and myself.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Chiltons-Auto-R...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1964...50376551890QQptZMotorsQ5fManualsQ5fLiterature



This is the one I would get
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chil...50327931001QQptZMotorsQ5fManualsQ5fLiterature

 

Jim, I'll probably stop at the library first and make the copies. I thought about the library, but I'll be surprised to see that they have any literature of that sort.

I wonder if the battery that's sat in the car for those 3 years will still be okay with a charge.

 

Going back to the reading your intial posts fom a few years ago I thought I would re-cap a few of our suggestions. Even without the books an manuals you should be able to check for spark and fuel. I am pretty darn sure you have compression since the car was running fine before so I would focus on the fuel and spark.

My gut feeling is a bad alternator due to the way it died out on you while driving adn the lights dimmed.

I would hook up the charger if you have not already. Once the battery is charged I would remove the air cleaner top, add a small amount of fuel into the carb tiny tube (vent neer the front of the carb), replace the top and turn the ignition key. If the engine turns over and fires up, even if it stalls right away you know you have spark. After sitting so long the fuel is bad in the tank so hopefully the tank is low and you can just add a bunch of new fuel from a jerry can.

Now that you have fresh fuel in the tank and you know you have spark you can try to get the engine to run off the fuel from the tank by startignthe car as you nornally would... a few pumps of the gas then try.. if it floods out give it some time and try again.

If you do not have spark or fuel then you will have to go bad to all the detailed info we gave you in your old thread about tracing back to check things out.