HP with unported STG 1 alum heads?

How much you ask..

Just took a Level 2A HP motor off the dyno this afternoon.

Our $2695.00 blended bowl and chamber work set, ports untouched.

Flow 316 cfm at .500 .... 225 at .300


464 with 11.5 compression, SRP pistons, TA rods, girdle, small solid cam, Single plane manifold, 950 Holley, TA headers.

580 Torque

590 HP..


That'll work.. for a motor that does not have "ported" heads :TU:

Yep, they are that good. You would not touch that number with a fully ported iron head, and these engine specs.


IT made 580/562 with a B4B/950 Holley and 569/551 with a B4B/800 QJ..

Gotta love those popcan heads.. most power I have EVER see from a dual plane manifold.

JW

 

Jim,
Very, very, impressive!

Any chance of putting the whole dyno sheet on the web, so we can see what these combo's did in the low-mid range?

Brett

 

Man, you're making me sick... I have to find a way to get the money for a set of these heads!!!

 

Come on Jim..... Unported heads???

Jim... I would not call an aluminum cylinder head flowing 225 cfm at .300 lift and 316 at .500 lift unported. I am sure with those numbers there is a good deal of bowl, short turn radius and chamber work done to get those kinds of numbers. I may even go as far as to say the intake valve is larger than 2.125. The Stg 1 and Stg 2 aluminum head has a much larger "Runner" which you are calling the port than the cast iron stuff. Therefore there is no need to touch that area unless you wanted numbers in the 340 range.

Guys and Gals.... these heads will flow in the 270s with NO port work at all and using stock 2.125 vavles. Bowl blending will get you in the high 280s. Then work the short turn and your into the 290s to 300s. Then you MUST unshroud the valve to get more air.

I agree with Jim.... these haeds are the best way to make HP. They work GREAT!!! Mike at T/A does a great job with the cylinder heads!!!!

What really makes the aluminum heads nice is the fact that grinding on aluminum is sooooooooo much easier than cast iron. To get 280 cfm out of a cast iron head will take more than double the amount of time than it takes to get 315 out of the aluminum head.

To all..... THINK ALUMINUM!

Good Luck

 

Your killin' me over here..

John..

It's got TA 1060/1070 valves in it.. I have already explored the 2.200 valves in these heads, we have a set that has them in it, and without porting the head, there is no advantage to them. If you get in and "make the holes big" by hogging them all out, then you can get more air at the larger lift numbers, but your gonna sacrfice airflow at the lower numbers.

And .300 lift airflow makes power.. most important number in the head, with a flat tappet cam.

These heads are exactly like the ones Here..
http://www.trishieldperf.com/finished_upgrade_heads.htm

and that is exactly all that was done to them. We are on our 5 th set now, and have picked up a little airflow in the last few sets, with simply "getting better" at it.. as one would expect when an outfit gains experience, and is always striving for "good stuff" vs. just getting product out the door.


This is what you get with our Upgraded valve installation heads, for $2695.00

I just looked back at the flow sheet for these heads..

Goes like this..

Lift ........Intake ............. Exhaust
.100 .........72......................61
.200..........160...................126
.300..........221...................173
.400..........280...................205
.500..........306...................225
.600..........316...................236

They look exactly like the ones on my website.. in the bowls and ports, but Brian has refined his valve job techinques to coax more air out of the head, without hogging them all out.

That first set we did, made 565 HP, 575 Torque, with a full point less compression, the less expensive heavier/big ring Speed pro pistons, and a 230* duration cam.

So, 30 HP, with a much higher lift cam, with 16* more intake duration, and a full point of compression, nice conical dish pistons, everything coated (including the piston skirts) should not be at all hard to beleive, for someone who has been building motors and testing with these heads.

It made almost exactly what I predicted, when the motor was sitting on the bench in pieces.

I won't just stick valves in a set of these heads.. simply does not make any sense.. a little bowl blend of the seats, and if you want to step up, blended and equalized chambers... You have found the big chamber in these... haven't you??


When we were taking the B4B off on the dyno, Ron's eyes got big, when he looked at the intake ports and said "you have not even ported these"!!

That's right pal....... no need.. unless you want to really go "balls out"

In fact, I would be afraid that you may sacrifice some mixture velocity, in anything less than a full race motor, if you hog these things out too big.

JW

 

Here is the pic of that motor's intakes

John..

Your really having that much trouble getting 300 cfm out of these heads?

I wouldn't know why... Not a set has left here, that did not flow that.. easy..

Here are the intake ports, as the intake is off, to swap the B4B back on it, before it heads off to California..

I don't see any grinder marks.. and I can sure see where the CNC stopped.


Note the short turn... untouched.. :spank:

JW

 

Jim,

I guess this is a good reason why we dont race flow benches!!!! If I put that head on one of the two flow benches I use here in the Cleveland area it would not even be close to 300 cfm@ .500 lift and certainly not 225 at .300.

 

Brett,

Here is the dyno sheet..

Correction... 583.5 ft/lbs .. not 580.. :error:

It was a long day yesterday..

 

Funny..



Since this is not the first time someone has questioned Ron's flowbench (always true when you get good results, or find out somebody else's claims are not true) he has a standing bet, that any head that comes out of the shop, can be sent anywhere in the country, to be flowed on another bench.. he will lay $200 on the fact that it will flow within 1% of what he says it does.

So.. since your so sure these aren't 300 cfm heads, then I will send one of the next set to be done out to you, you can inspect and flow it on your bench, then we will send it to a third party for another test.

My $200 says that they flow 300+ cfm.. the engine dyno says that too..

So what does your $200 say... up for the game?

If you lose, you will pay shipping too.

My integrity is worth more than any sale ever could be, and when challenged, I take that very seriously. So if your gonna do that, I expect that you will pony up the money.



uzzled:

JW

 

Jim
Is Mike still using the 3/8'' valve stem primarily?

PS
You seem ''tense''........I think you need a 1/4 mile pass to beak things up a bit.I'd loan you my car for a run,it's alot more fun than the dyno room:grin:

 

if those flow that what by chance does a stock stage 1 cast head flow about?

 

Jim,

After your last private message (titled "time to put up..or..) to me I had thought this was over. But.... I guess not.

You chastised me for challanging your integrity on a public forum. So.... I did feel bad and didn't talk about it here on this forum. And this morning wrote you a private message back with a semi apology.

OK... we are here now.....

If you remember Jim..... I did not say that the 225 @ .300 number or the 315 @ .500 numbers were impossible. In fact about a year ago on a Saturday I was looking at your web site, called you, and said.... Great job on the .300 lift numbers.

Anyhow... back to the beginning of this forum titled "HP with UNPORTED STG 1 aluminum heads" . Never did I say that your cylinder head expert couldn't get these numbers. However I did say that it was impossible without porting. I still stand by my beliefs!!!!! Whole heartedly!!!!!

You say that you want to bet $200 bucks.....

I will take that bet!!!!!!!! Send me a set of UNPORTED HEADS (valve guides in the stock location, 3/8 valve stems with TA 1060/1070 valve, NO combustion chamber work and NO grind marks in the bowl for bowl blending. ONLY the seats cut for the valves.) This is truely an unported STG 1 cylinder head. This head will be flowed at the industry standard 28" of H20. With the truely unported head.... I say the flow numbers do not reach the 315 @ .500 or the 225 @ .300.

NOW..... I would like to DOUBLE the bet to $400 bucks. In addition to the dollar amount... The LOSER must kiss the winners ASS on the starting line of Quaker City Drag Raceway at the 2004 BPG Nats!!!!

ARE YOU UP FOR THE GAME!!!!!!!

Thanks

 

DAAAAAMMMMNNNN!!!!!

The stakes have been raised!!!!!

I'm glad I live close to Quaker......That is if J-dub accepts.

I know,being around Drag Racing,I hear alot of BS.
Looks to me like someone has heard enough.....

 

I'm definately not going to miss the BPG Nats now!:laugh: :laugh:

 

Guys and Gals,

Ya know.. sometimes when I post on this board I wish I hadn't hit the send button.


I do want to clear the air here!!!!

I few months back I had a set of Stage 1 aluminum heads for sale. They were promised to a friend who was trying to come up with the $$$$. One of our founding fathers of the BPG was interested in the heads if not sold to my friend. Long story short... the heads sold.

This founding father said he was going to have Jim do a set of heads for him. Now... I could have said... Well... I will do them for you. I didnt say that!!! I actually told him.... "Jim does great work so thats a good decision".

Jim does do great work... Jim has done good for all of us by starting this board for us to debate on. I will continue to say.... Send you stuff to Jim and you will not be dissappointed.

My whole point of discussion here was to let people (Buick enthusiast) know that it does take time and effort to get the numbers Jim has discussed here. They are GOOD numbers. And WILL make power.

I just wanted to clear the air!

Thanks Again

 

Dig-Dang

Hope somebody takes a camera to the BPG nationals so us'ns here on the left coast can see the big payoff.

Personally, I'm glad to see that this seems to be heading in a positive, high spirited direction - everybody keep smiling now... 'cause we're having fun dammit!

Anybody up for a friendly side wager? Something in the $10 range with the winner donating 1/2 to the BPG (newly established??) Benevolent Fund sounds right.

I'll take Jim (I have no knowledge of numbers other than whats been posted and do not own a set of pop can heads, Jim has put alot of hard work in here so I'm gonna back him)

I think that the net result of all of this is that the info that comes out will help everybody.

 

Gary..

Yes, all the heads are done with 3/8 guides, unless 11/32 is specified.

Mike does now offer his high quality valves with the 11/32 stem.

Tense..

Ya, got a lot going on right now, and taking some big chances in business.

Not to mention, you can call me a lot of things, but a liar is *not* one of them...

JW

 

i don't regularly chime in these heated discussiona.. but felt the need to give some input... while feeling a little bad in this thing.. My motor is the one these here heads are bolting onto. Like Jims's post said there was a little stress when it had some problems a couple months back in the dyno. But he stuck by his word and his quote. Never had to pay an extra dime for the repairs, but he never brougt it up or kidded about me sharing the cost to repair, just that it would be a little while till i got the thing back into my car. I'd say thats pretty stand up in today's world and I don't doubt anything he has said in this thread. I'm sure the heads flow what he says and what he described above what what was described to me when i bought the setup.

 

just curious what do these heads flow box stock with the stage 1 valves? I have set of valves and springs so it would be cheaper for me someday to buy bare heads? is there a big flow loss by not blending the bowl and just bolting them on?

thanks

 

I watched this thread from the beginning to see what would develope. I have to say that even though some posts were typed with a emotional overtone, you both handled yourselves like gentlemen.
Through this the members were afforded some extremely valuable information. Thanks!
Well done J.W. Hopefully J.Z. will accept what was offered and Let It Go.
I would also like to thank Mike T. for his time and effort for bringing us another quality product.
:TU: