Feels and sounds more like the passenger side First, this car has all new suspension bushings, body bushings, shocks etc. Upper and lower ball joints are new Springs are new too - Hotchkis. All done by the previous owner, likely when the body was off the frame. Sometimes, it does not make a sound (same road, speed etc) Ive added a 1.25" sway bar, but it made the noise before that so the sway bar is not the problem. Today I raised the front of the car, put the frame on stands and let the wheels hang The springs are tight Shocks are tight Lower and upper control arm bushings are tight Upper control arm has 3 shims on each side, and they're tight All the bolts are tight I cant see up into the spring pocket too well to see any indication if the spring is moving, but I cant shake it by hand or move it with a pry bar with the wheels hanging. Bouncing the car in the driveway does not reproduce the noise.. most times Every now and then, it will do it while I bounce it. My first plan of attack is to replace the Hotchkis springs with factory, new moogs were delivered just last week - not a job Ive ever done so Im hesitant to do it myself. As you can see it didnt happen when I hit that manhole... Its like it happens when I hit a 'hallow' vs a bump More so when the wheel drops, not gets pushed up over a bump <embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w75/cstanley444/V8Buick/IMG_2183.mp4">
I did not notice any rubber missing in the shock but it gives me something to check! I can't move the the shock, it's tight I did try to make sure the top shock bolt is tight but how do I keep the shock from turning? A friend suggested to unbolt the top shock bolt and let the wheel hang further to see if the spring is loose
There is a rubber bushing on the top of the frame under that nut and washer. There is also one underneath that you cant really see too well. Just a guess, but the bushing under the frame might be missing. Unbolting the shock wont make the suspension hang lower. The shocks are longer than the front suspension travel. What you could do is to remove the two lower shock bolts and let the shock extend. Then compress the shock to see if you duplicate the noise. If that bushing is missing, you'll hear the washer hit the frame. Are the sway bar end links hitting anything? You might want to look under the while the car is on the ground while someone jounces the suspension. While your under there, check the ball joints as a precaution. Place the jack saddle under the spring pocket of the lower control arm and lift the tire just off the ground. You have now unloaded the ball joints. Take a long prybar (I have a 4 footer) and a piece of 2x4 to use as a fulcrum and pry under the tire. Your looking for any movement. The movement will be similar to wheel bearing play but will be at the ball joint. You might have to have a helper pry under the tire while you look at the joint for play
I sure appreciate the suggestions Cause I'm at a loss Hope to get some time tomorrow to check it out I'm almost about to go to a shop and get it on a lift
I replaced the front springs last night.... Pix and video here --> http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?246537-I-replaced-my-front-springs-nothing-to-it! Ugh!! Geeez!!! The same noise is still there.. <embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w75/cstanley444/GS455/IMG_2310.mp4"> So I'll recap... New springs new ball joints new control arm bushing new end links new sway bar bushings new shocks (rubber bushings are in place) So lets go back to my "help identify this noise" thread here http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?246029-Help-identify-this-front-suspension-noise
I know you said the ball joints are new, but you might want to check them for play anyway. Also, when you took out the springs, did you check thhje lower control arm bushings anyway? Again I realize these parts are new, but check them over again.
Yeah, I need to get my finer tooth comb out for inspection. Tomorrow I'll be at a show with a bunch of Buick guys, hopefully we can bounce the car and get a better idea of whats happening. hard to check ball joints yourself with no lift, and hard to bounce and look under at the same time
Thats not quite how you check a ball joint. You have to unload them of weight. Jack up the wheel under the spring pocket of the lower control arm and get the wheel just off the ground. Get a piece of wood and place it in alongside of the tire. This will be used as a fulcrum. Get a long pry bar and stick the tip under the tire. Use the wood as a fulcrum and pry up under the tire while looking for play at the upper and lower control joints. There should be zero play
Yip Ive done that before.. actually Ive jacked up the lower control arm, and pry on the tire left and right (tie rod) and up and down (ball joint) Hard to do it that way by yourself. But your method seems like I could do that on my own, never thought of doing it like that. :TU:
Upper control arm snubber missing? Seems it could be likely if it only happens when the suspension unloads quickly.
Yes thats exactly it... It happens when the wheel drops, or when the car moves up. Im not sure what a snubber is.. do you see it on this diagram? At the top of the spring, there is a cone shaped rubber called a 'bumper' in this picture, I did note that these are missing The lower bumper is in place
A little bit of an update today Went to Daytona for the spring car show Met a couple of other board members for the drive out They could hear the sound, and when stopped for gas, I was able to bounce the front and make the noise. Cant see anything moving when the sound happens, but you can feel with your hand, that its coming from the lower ball joint area So, even though the joints were supposed to be new by the last owner, I guess I'll be trying 2 new lowers this week (just as well to do both lowers) ... will update back
I just called it a "snubber". What I meant was "bumper". Get those two cone shaped bumpers back in and I bet your noise goes away!
The ball joints are a press fit into the lower control arm. After repeated ball joint changes, the hole may be enlarged to the point where the ball joint will move around. I've seen people add a few tack welds to them to keep them in. Not sure if that is the right way to do things.
Update today At lunch I pulled the spindle off the passenger side. What a work out it was to get the upper to separate Thinking the problem was the lower joint, the first think I do is try to move it. Its very stiff, and feels 'dry'. Pealed the boot off and there's no grease in it! So I grab the top joint I dont think it should sound like this Put a few thousand pounds on it and I imagine it would have a 'crack' noise as it over comes inertia and moves It too has no grease in it Looks like I'll be on my way back to Autozone to get 2 uppers too. <embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w75/cstanley444/GS455/IMG_2490.mp4">
Passenger side is done (which was the one making the noise) I took the grease nipple out of the upper joint and there is no grease inside!!! amazing. The lower had some grease in it but the grooves in the ball were dry under the boot. New ones are on and the car is back together. The new joints came pre filled with grease but I just ran out at lunch and bought a gun and grease (a garage is not complete without one right?) I'll make sure both the new ones are full, as with the drivers side, and hopefully get a run this afternoon.
I dont know diddly about your quest for the noise but have a new STEELMAN CHASSIS EAR wired with six channels. if your still up a tree when you get done with the ball joints i could mail you the EAR and try it for a while and return it . Basically you set as many clamps as you want up to six and drive with the headphones,marty
Man that is a very generous offer. But thankfully I dont think I'll need to take you up on it. Joints are greased and a successful test run was made! I took it over the same road in the first video a bunch of times... a place where I know the noise will happen and its gone. Thanks to all who replied.. I love this site!
