Gotta find an OD for the 67

Discussion in 'The "Juice Box"' started by koserv, Jun 2, 2022.

  1. 12lives

    12lives Control the controllable, let the rest go

    They don't sell OEM cables anymore. You can find used one's on ebay but that's a dice roll. The cable must work smoothly and not stretch so get a good one. Also, they come in different lengths so that is another variable. With a Qjet you need to raise the carb on spacers which affects the throttle and choke. I'm going through this now and don't have all the answers.
     
  2. koserv

    koserv Well-Known Member

    Yeah I see the issue. Both should be fairly straightforward. Throttle linkage should bend or perhaps a riser collar on the carb end of the linkage. Choke arm could also be done by straightening the arm at the 90 degree loop at the top. I haven’t seen those particular issues here on the site, so once I start “engineering” I’ll post up pics.
     
  3. koserv

    koserv Well-Known Member

    The part number on the Coan TC is 90310. $1,500ish retail. Should be worth $600 or so to someone out there if I don’t use it.
     
    sean Buick 76 likes this.
  4. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Ken from everyday performance can help you setup a Q jet as he adds the TV cable bracket ti any Q jet. I think he swaps out an arm on the side. He can also help with the geometry for the cable. Try finding a cable from a GM dealer I’ve stashed a few away.

    torque converters aren’t a black magic voodoo, that converter will stall close to 3000 giving you increased off the line acceleration due to the torque multiplication. If it stalls at 2800 or 3200 either is fine for your application and you get 100% lockup when your cruising so there isn’t any risk of over stalling it in my opinion.
     
  5. koserv

    koserv Well-Known Member

    I've got the EP website up now ordering the brackets. He has really clear conversion instructions....looks straightforward. I see there's a 'universal' cable available (TCI 376800). Push comes to shove I can restring the OEM Grand National cable with the guts of the universal. Or, just use the universal. I see there's plenty of info out there on getting things adjusted.

    On the torque converter as I said I know nothing. So....a lock up converter locks up (hard connects to the input shaft) automagicly at a certain speed/rpm match (around highway speed), yes? And, if you want to lock up manually you can add a wire to put voltage to the solenoid on the side of the tranny (either manually, or with a little wiring ingenuity) and it's 'locked' when you tell it to (I've not really snooped yet to see if the one electrical spade on the drivers side of the 200-4R is indeed the lock up doo-dad). Stall speed is....where I genuflect and rely on my elders to guide me.

    Next hurtle is the speedo gears. I've been driving really, really fast since I've had the car on the road ('stock' speedo gear in the TH400 and a 3.55 rear gear. I'm going 50 through school zones according to my dash...top end about a million). I suppose I should fix that with the swap.
     
  6. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    The lock up converter won’t lock up unless you have either a kit for an automatic lock up added or a toggle switch TCA sells a kit for that and there’s other ones that lock it up based on MPH from B&M. I use a TCI vacuum switch to lockup when over 10 HG of vacuum and a toggle switch to over ride it so I can leave it in locked when I want. The stall speed of the converter is kind of poor wording a better word would be flash RPM. Let’s just say you were at a stoplight and you let off the break in Floor the gas the flash RPM or the stall point will be with the RPM jumps up too quickly as you launch off the line. When the RPMs jump up quickly off the line this is basically torque multiplication by slippage think of slipping the clutch almost as you accelerate off the line this just allows the engine to get up in RPMs quicker off the line. Think of it like slipping the clutch a bit off the line with a manual transmission. The slippage multiplies torque and launches the car harder. With a larger camshaft that only makes power over 3000 rpm let’s just say then there is a huge need for a converter like this as it bogs under that rpm on launch With a stock engine stall converter isn’t really needed however even with the stock camshaft you’ll still notice increased acceleration off the line and since it’s a locked up converter once you get cruising you either manually lock it up or it locks up in a set speed or based on switch she set up, Therefore the stall speed isn’t really a factor once you’re cruising.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
  7. koserv

    koserv Well-Known Member

    Thanks. It’s starting to sink in. Kinda…..
     
  8. koserv

    koserv Well-Known Member

    Soooo….single spade doo-dad drivers side mid case. My quick inter web search for lock up wiring shows a 4-post connector. Is this just an OD only connection? Or something else entirely. And yes, I’m too lazy today to pull the pan and look-see.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Read up,

    http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/webproj/211_fall_2014/Chase_Delatush/1446047202547574a981aa0/index.html

    http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/webproj...atush/1446047202547574a981aa0/components.html

    http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/webproj...6047202547574a981aa0/stages-of-operation.html

    Stall speed is defined as the maximum RPM the impeller can turn, with the turbine held stationary. There is way more than stall speed to consider. Efficiency is very important. You want the converter to move the car under light throttle, but, you also want it to stall at a higher RPM when you romp on it. The cam is something to consider when selecting a stall speed. A completely stock engine has a power range starting at 800 RPM. A higher performance cam pushes that up to 1500, or even 2000 RPM. A stock converter stalls around 1400. You can see the problem with a stock converter and bigger cam. The car will feel doggy until it gets into the power range of the cam. You can also have a situation where the converter is too loose. That will make the car feel lazy unless you really step into it, and then you lose traction. That's why efficiency is important. Ideally, you want the converter to feel pretty stock UNTIL you step into it. With the current state of converter technology, you can have your cake and eat it too, but it costs more, because the converter is purpose built for your engine, whether it is stock or wild.

    That Coan might be just fine, or it might not. Chances are, it was built for whatever it was behind originally.
     
  10. koserv

    koserv Well-Known Member

    I’ve moved from the shop to the hammock. Readin up…..
     
  11. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Platinum Level Contributor

    This video from Larry's second link was helpful

     
    73 Stage-1 and 12lives like this.
  12. koserv

    koserv Well-Known Member

    Well the 200-4R swap is a pretty simple project all things considered. Bolts up nicely....no trans mount mod required. U-joint is available to use the 200 yoke with the stock driveline with no mods (length is fine). A little grinding on the flexplate cover allows you to use the Buick cover. The carb mod is reasonably straight forward. Used Summit for the add on bits and Everyday Performance Q-jet arm and riser. Had to significantly rework the TV bracket, but starting with a pre made bracket and cut/weld/repeat is much easier than starting from scratch. Choke and throttle hook up were a quick eyeball bend. Note to self.....remember to hook up the gas line to the carb prior to hitting the go button. Thankfully, no open flames in the shop. Fuel pump works fine.....

    Road test tomorrow. Lock up TC is wired (vacuum switch, brake switch, and dash mount on/off switch), and I'm reasonably confident the TV cable is set well enough to at least noodle down the block (on the tight side....I hope). Hopefully the shift points will be close, the TC locks up as advertised, and cruse speed nirvana is just around the corner. Thanks to all who chimed in. Enjoyed the 'learnin' with this project. And, kept it within my 2K budget. That happens like....never!
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
    Tomahawk, 12lives and sean Buick 76 like this.
  13. koserv

    koserv Well-Known Member

    Aaaaahhhhhhh……,overdrive!

    About 30 minutes of dialing in the TV cable and it’s a totally different car. Pretty sure the lock up TC isn’t….no change in RPM when I flip the switch off (lighted, so I know when there’s juice). Next project is finding the AC leak. 100 degree days and I now want to drive the car, so the TC will have to wait.
     

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