Hello! I'm new to the Club & I've been thinking about getting a late 60's or early 70's muscle car. I used to have a '74 Firebird and then a '78 T/A. I've been considering a couple of different cars and would welcome opinions. The cars I'm considering are Buick (GS) or Pontiac (T/A). Any thoughts? Thanks-Mark
NEW KID ON THE BLOCK Pontiac glad to hear you're thinking of buying a Buick, you come to the right site for advice & grins. Both are good choices but we feel Buicks are the best... less were built, buick's are rarer, not as many around. Welcome to V8Buick.com - hope to see more of you on the site. Good luck ! Pontiac ou: :sleep: :beer
Welcome to the V8Buick bulletin board, Mark! I think you'll find that about 99.9% of the members here will tell you to go with the GS! :TU:
I have to admit, my oldest brother owned about an 80-81 TA, I think he bought it new. With the T tops. I drove it quite a bit myself, and have to admit, back then, I liked it....but it couldn't hold a candle to the 68 GS400 he had before the TA.
I have owned both: my '70 Skylark/GS clone, and a '78 Formula Firebird. The Pontiac was a driver's car, let me tell you staright out. Cockpit is very well laid out. Handled like a dream- it had the WS6 package (remember when that was just a suspension option?p ) The styling is fantastic. Engine was a dog from the day it was built (305) until I gave the car away (I was rough on that car) The Buick really seems like a completely different type of car. It does not seem to invite you to drive fast, the way the Formula did. The Buick is also different in it's quality, though. The Buick styling is every bit as handsome as the Formula's, and in addition I find it to have cleaner lines. That damn '78 Formula rusted out faster than I could think about getting new panels. I've talked to other Formula and T/A owners and the general consensus was that the cars were made of compressed rust to begin with. In addition, the build quality was just plain poor. I've never owned a Pontiac 6.6L, but after my experience with that 305, I don't want to have any experience with them. I can't tell you how much easier it is to work on my '70 Buick than it was to do similar things on the '78 Pontiac. I had a 10 mph fender bender with the '78 Poncho, and the whole front clip had to be replaced with the exception of one fender and the hood. By comparison, I have knocked over a tree with my convertible and didn't get a scratch or a bruise. I was struck broadside in my '70 at 40 mph and I drove the car home- the van that hit me had to go onto a flatbed. I had been tempted to trade or sell my car twice: once for a white '78 T/A with a blue firechicken on the hood and the (Oldsmobile??) higher oil capacity 400, and once for an '87 Grand National. After my Formula experience, I don't want a T/A, and with all due respect to the GN owners here, after owning an '87 Regal, I do not want an '87 GN. I hate the cabin, for starters. I would recommend the Buick. If you do go for the T/A, hey, it's a very pretty, fast, good handling car, and I can't blame you. Not everyone can be in love with Buicks. However, check the Poncho out to the nines: mine rusted from everywhere! I had it in '95, and the doors and rear quarters were swiss cheese by '97 when I gave it away. When I got my '70 Buick in '89, I drove it through the same N.E. winters I drove the Pontiac in, but for 5 more years than the Poncho, and the car was older and more abused than the Poncho to begin with, but the Buick didn't rust half so bad. So check everything for rust. Get one in nice shape, I do not reccomend a project T/A, because I have seen two types of '70s T/As: nice ones, and P.O.Ss. Don't get somebody's problem car! But that can be said of any car. Also bear in mind that any car you look at from that era is likely to be abused, so don't take the seller's word for anything. If he can't prove a part's good, assume it's broken. I've heard so many tales like "Oh, the alternator just makes a little noise, but it has for years, so it's good", or, "that rear end always ground like that, I had high performance clutches put in it". Don't pay the seller for his claims, make him prove it. Also bear in mind that the T/A and Formula do not share some aspects of the Firebird and Espirit. For instance, the T/A is lower and wider than the base Firebird. On mine, fenders between the two would not interchange, I had to buy Formula or T/A fenders because the mounting points on the inside of the fender were physically in two different spots than a Firebird's.
Chris. Thanks for the info. I had a '74 (bought used, lots of rust problems) & a '78 (bought new, ziebarted & garaged) that held up well. I need to see more GS's & try them on for size. The T/A's sit lower and I'm not as young as I used to be! When you say the GS doesn't "invite you to drive fast", what do you mean? Thanks for your response. I appreciate your time!
Check out the "Members rides" forum!!:grin: if that don't get you? nothing will:laugh: your talkin apples and oranges when you say pontiac T/As and GSs:grin: Moz
Mark, Once I started driving a full-frame car I noticed some of the unibodies felt like driving tin cans. I favor the GM a-bodies, but if you want a uni-body get one with low miles, otherwise they end up becoming rattle traps. Duane
I mean the whole flavor of the T/A and Formula is European-esque and, let's face it, sportier than any Buick. The cockpit for instance- I am only 5'7" tall, and the ergonomics of my '78 Formula were such that without having to lean forward, I could touch any control in the cockpit I needed to, even window regulator handles. The GS is a much more traditional muscle car layout, which, although I like it, isn't exactly race-inspired. The '78s interior seemed to wrap around me. I love my Buick's interior, but things like the windsheild wiper switch is blocked by the steering wheel. Want to roll down a window? Lean forward. On the negative side, the Pontiac had huge blind spots to the rear quarters I could do without- the Buick has a more traditional roofline and less of a problem in this area. The fact that the '78 Pontiac's interior was designed basically at the same time as my Buick's is telling: obviously Pontiac wanted more of a "driver's car" feel and flavor. I have had a bench seat in my car, as well as buckets. The buckets helped the sporty feel of the car immensely. The '70 and up GSs have round gauges, which also help the sporty feel. A Buick hood tach is available as well. In general though, i feel the Pontiac's interior is a standout. For the time, this was a big step away from what had been the norm, and even today, it feels pretty much right. The Buick's interior layout really shows it's age, where the Pontiac's may not be as advanced as present day cars', but it certainly is a well laid out cockpit and it does it's job well. The Pontiac Formula I had always seemed to be oriented toward driving fast. The Buick's ability to be driven fast is at least as present as the Pontiac's, but the Pontiac flaunts it, in my opinion. In the handling department, the Pontiac is just plain good. If the rest of the Pontiac was as good as the interior and suspension was, I never would have gotten rid of it. Unfortunately, the rest of the car had many many problems: shifter linkage, rear end, engine in general, heating and cooling systems were shot and remained basically shot after repair- other things broke as I repaired the things I had to fix. The car was just a mess from age and wear, but my Buick was older and didn't have nearly as many fundamental problems...In repairs, when my Buick was in poor shape, I could unbolt parts and replace them. In my Pontiac, the part I needed to replace PLUS the part(s) the broken bit was bolted to had to be replaced. The difference in build quality astounded me. Engine-wise, I don't know much about Pontiacs, but a CC review last year crowned the Buick 455 most powerful, handily beating the Poncho. Have you considered a compromise between the T/A and the GS? How about a '70 GTO? Slick styling, it's a Pontiac, the interior's a little sportier than it's A-body siblings, and it's an A-body with a real frame. As a bonus, I beleive the '70 GTO is a landmark car- first American car using a CAD program to design a major part- the front fascia. I know I'm being partial to Buick rather than rah-rah Buick, but I'd rather see you get a car you're happy with than a car you're less than satisfied in. Personally, I would not like another Formula, but many people have them and they're in great shape, so some of them are obviously good. Intangibly, the Buick offers advantages such as: the Buick community seems much more strongly knit than other car communities I've seen. Recent innovations in Buick performance parts indicate a trend toward even more parts being designed, redesigned, or reproduced for Buicks. Buicks get more attention- everyone's seen a T/A. The GS would be a rarer car. I was shocked that my car was one of 4954- and it's not even a real GS455. The T/A must be a much more common car. Parts-wise, the Buick should be easier to get some parts, as 4 cars shared the Abody platform from '68 to '72, and some of those cars were wildly popular. Although the Camaro and Firebird families lasted longer without a major re-design, the cars went through a time when they were not very popular and didn't sell the way a '70 Chevelle did, for example. A 1978 model year car will require emission controls in some areas, and this is being more strongly enforced as time goes by. Conversely, the "emission controls" that came on my '70 Buick were a vapor return line and a non-vented gas cap.
:Brow: Mark- sounds like alot of good imput here ! I have to agree with quite a few ideas i just read . There's nothing like a Buick ride , and also the torque ! When i get in a car i don't like the feeling like i'm getting in a go cart!! Alot of thing's felt good in the 70's , but only a few STILL feel good!!:laugh: The "GS" will give you the warm and fuzzy feeling and keep a good street value!!:beer P/S - Mark i'm glad you noticed the Smiley face !!:bglasses: Yes we are a Buick Family !!:TU: :TU:
Chris, Thanks much for the replies. I appreciate you taking the time to detail me on the cars. You made a great point about the Buick community being a srtonger knit than others as evidenced by your taking the time to help. I think I'm lucky that I've got some time to look around and talk to more people about their cars & likes/dislikes. It also helps that I'm close enough to Volo auto Museum that I can research there as well!
When you go to the Volo museum, beg borrow or steal a digital camera, bring it along and post some pics of the cars there, I'd love to get over there myself:TU:
Bruce, I think it would help test driving a GS to feel the ride & the torque. I'll keep looking & visiting this site for info as well as Summer cruz' nights! Thanks-
Didn't even know they had a website, Mark, but thanks for the heads up! I'll take a look for it. I'm partial to GSs and muscle car Mopars, but any old car is interesting to me.
