Shame on you, o arrogant one, for assuming the E-heads will not have top shelf parts. Didn't you read Qship's (whoever he is) posts? :spank: :grin: BTW, I agree with your comments 100%. Basically, the GSCA informed Edelbrock the same thing they informed Bullgod head division - make it as good or better as TA's at a lower price or there won't be a market for them. And egads there, Qship, Edelbrock IS consulting with Buick enthusiasts... :blast: :laugh:
2 birds, 1 stone http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=42914&highlight=crossover Pay very close attention to what Jim and Jim had to say. :Smarty:
Dave, Not trying to be a butthead here but I would like to disagree with your statement above. While some aluminum heads for a small block would be nice, and YES I would buy some, I have to say that we need a intake FIRST. Heads would be great, yes, NO arguement there. But for the few that have worked with 350's, in most big hp cases the intake is the limiting factor. We have aftermarket options of the TA, or a Poston. Both of which are basically used for weight removal only because they provide absolutely NO improvment over factory iron without porting. My personal opinion, if either intake were worth its weight as scrap, Sonny Seal would have one on Tweety instead of adapting a small chevy intake to it. And Bill M. would have used one with his race to 1K hp. My point being that we need to start on top and work our way down. Heads would be a great deal for us. But without an intake, I think, we're just shooting ourselves in the foot. Most know that I am building a small block with a turbo on it. I have at my disposal a TA intake, a Poston intake, and 3 stock intakes. With that said, I am looking at adapting like Sonny did, or welding up one. Both options are currently underway in undisclosed locations in the midwest :TU: . If anyone wants to help the 350" guys out.................Give us a intake that works, not a factory knock off for weight savings. THEN we'll move on to heads. My intent is NOT to offend, just offer an opinion from someone that is building a 350". I think a intake would be the best start for anyone building a SBB.
Oh, My! For $2600 a BPG member could darned near buy the assembled TA heads AND their much superior shaft-mounted roller rockers! Plus, you wouldn't get some know-nothing dolt on the tech-line if you have a question or problem. not that I think everyone at E-brock is that way, but have you ever called with a tech question? I cannot believe the people at Edelbrock need Richard Lasseter and the rest of the GSCA technical department to explain the competitive situation to them...
Works out good, I get to kill two birds with one stone! To Torqued & Dave Burn's last threads. Real quick about the single plane intake debate on the 455, it's back to the air pump thing. If you have heads that flow less than 300 cfm (iron) you can compliment them with an inferior intake manifold. A single plane would only be a moderate improvement, because the demand is minimal. Now that 325-375 cfm is getting more prevelant, a dual plane is like putting a 2 bbl on the engine. Every modern comparison (for an engine that sees 5500 rpm or better) with dual plane and single, always has the single winning out. The single gives up some in the lower RPM, but not much. It gains it all back after 4500 and then some. To those that say the engine doesn't see much past 4500 around town, well it also isn't under demand either. If you are wanting performance and you are only using the engine to 4500, you should have bought a diesel. Towards Dave's post, without heads, most combinations don't require much more. Heads & an Intake will have to go hand in hand Dave
How hard would it be to use what you have (TA V6 heads) and add a cylinder to it for the 350? Aren't they the same except for that? I've heard of heads being cut up and welded back together to fit different engines, take four V6 heads, whack 'um up and weld 'um back together to make two 350 heads and see how they do! :TU: It's only money! :laugh:
Yeah, you can't add a cylinder to V6 head, because the configuration isn't correct, but you can cut two V6's using two cylinders form one and two from the other to achieve that. That has been done in the past, it is a huge pita. One of the first comments that Mike said when he acquired the M&A stuff was that we are halfway there towards the 350. But when the M&A's had to be fully re-developed, there went any play money for a V8 version. Dave
dave, i looked at using a 383 mopar and a 340 mopar intake. i will be using the sbm. it is roughly a 1/4" off overall to the sbb. adapter plates will be easy for this. as far as the bbb goes, t/a and others have plenty to offer for the v6 and the bbb. the 350 like the 340 are underfunded, both are great motors. time is of the essence for 350 parts. everybody is itchy for parts that arent on the market yet. if y'all wait to long, the market will evaporate. just my .02 :Smarty: john
350 parts, I agree are over due. 340 parts, i.e. heads and intake will never happen (hate to make it sound so harsh). The only large group for the 340 (340 only being made 2 years) family is the Rover guys and they don't have much need for a high flowing cylinder head for 300 cubes and under. Which would be insufficient for a 340. Then the whole intake thing. It would be cool to devise, dial an intake, same intake for a 215 fits a 300 then a 340 with different adapters for each. I know there is or was something like that out of the UK but haven't heard much. Dave
"350 parts, I agree are over due" WELL.................does anybody see a need NOT to invest in this engine. when you get the first set (heads and intake) done, let me know and i will send the monies asap. (where is that staples button, 'that was easy') btw, the 340 is akin to the 327 chevy. they love to run. john
The price you see there is the retail price, cause Edelbrock has to quote that price due to their distribution agreements. If you look at the Edelbrock listed retail price on a 2101 Performer SBC intake is like 180.00, they don't sell for that, more like 110.00. Dave what is the actual RETAIL price on the TA1 head, not the jobber which is what most parts sell for. I was asked what relationship to Edelbrock, I know the engineer who did the design work on them.
This is a bit vague. Do you work for Edelbrock - You may know the engineer because you work with him and if not. It intrigues me why you defend this product so vigorously..
qship, WHY not have edelbrock step up to making sbb heads and manifold ???? the business is there for the taking. :Smarty: i'm ready to buy. john btw, my last phone conversation with an employee at edelbrock was he didnt have a fricking clue what a buick was. not one iota.
Qship, any idea on how many sets of 455 Buick heads Edelbrock thinks they can sell in the first year?
Dave, First off thanks for the reply. I appreciate your input ! Just a couple things though in response. Not real sure if you were aiming your 300 cfm comment at small blocks, but none the less. If my heads make 300, WHY would I want to ""compliment them with an inferior intake manifold"" ?? If I were building anything, why would I even consider putting on an inferior product ? I want to build the best I can, the first time. The option of using even the most remote type of "inferior product" is not an option for me ! As to the comment ""Every modern comparison (for an engine that sees 5500 rpm or better) with dual plane and single, always has the single winning out."" ummmmmmm YES !!!! And I have EVERY intention of going past 5500 with my small block........Often ! Thus the need for an single plane intake ! And I am sure there are plenty of sbb guys out there that would agree with me. If we had, at the least, a intake to get us started, I am almost sure that a few would sell in while in wait for heads. I haven't counted the folks on the list for this number specifically, but there IS interest. And.........""Towards Dave's post, without heads, most combinations don't require much more. Heads & an Intake will have to go hand in hand"".... I think Robs motor showed us otherwise when dynoed. As I recall it was a bolt on 50 hp in that situation. That was with a "kit" single plane intake that could have used some serious work. Anywayssssssssssssss THANKS for the input. I am going to continue on my project as normal. Nothing like taking the hard way to get somewhere huh ? Isn't that why we all enjoy our Buicks ? Thanks again Dave, appreciated !!!! :TU: :TU:
455 cfm's Dave B, What I took away from Dave at TA's comments about head cfm was that unless your heads are flowing 300 cfm or more, they are likely to be the restriction in the air pump with either a single plane or dual plane, hence the performance gains of using a single plane intake aren't as great on an engine with heads that flow less tham 300 cfm's. Once you get up and over 300, the dual plane becomes the restriction, and switching to a single plane reduces that restriction and adds more power. I think Dave was trying to point out (I hope he chimes in again and I don't mean to speak for him) that there is more to consider than the just rpm crossover point at which single planes start to make more power than dual planes.
John, Would LOVEEEEEE to make Salem this year for a shootout. But honestly I just don't know if I can make it. Finances are a bit tighter for me this year with the new car building. I haven't ruled out the option though. I am still trying to "find a way". Not looking good for BG either but I have an offer. At this point I am looking at testing the beginning of the year, making my race in Kearney with the car, then Morocco or Douglas, maybe Noble, and some local big bucks events. That being said.................would LOVE to talk to you about mopar manifold adaptation. Looking at all kinds of options now, and time is running out. Gonna have to decide soon. Offers out there, and I will pay for the call. Just need a time, day and number to call. :TU:
At first I thought I could combine the two responses and by the time I was done I should have split them. The first paragraph is ALL directed to the big block situation. The second paragraph is towards the 350. I can only see severe combinations needing a single plane before aftermarket heads are available. I still think that they have to go hand in hand, because if an intake comes out first, you can't only make 10 pcs at a time (because not enough people are at that point). And same story with the heads, they are going to need an intake to go with them or you'll choke them. It's a catch 22. Wish it was 1975 and don't have to feel so uneasy about making the first ever aftermarket "speed" parts for an engine that hasn't been made in 25 years. That's worse than the Stage 2 heads and at least there was a sample to start with on those! Wow. Dave
