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Dog dish wheels vs. Rallye wheels for JL2 C1 disc brakes - 69 GS400

Discussion in 'Chassis restoration' started by ibis1969, Aug 12, 2024.

  1. ibis1969

    ibis1969 Member

    Does anyone know if in 1969 dog dish wheels were required if the JL2 C1 power disc brake option was ordered on a GS400?
     
  2. Dano

    Dano Platinum Level Contributor

    I could be wrong, but I thought (& according to the parts book) in '69 the chrome rims were available w/disk but not in '68.
     
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  3. Duane

    Duane Member

    The wholesale car order forms should give you that info.
    Duane
     
  4. ibis1969

    ibis1969 Member

    Duane-
    Sorry, what or where are the wholesale car order forms?
     
  5. Duane

    Duane Member

    When your car was ordered new at the dealership this form would have been filled out to place the order.

    It would list all the option codes available, and would state if only certain wheels had to be included for disc brakes.

    There are many blank copies of these floating around, so if anyone has one they could post a copy here and you could get your info.

    I could help but all my info is packed from the move, and I won’t see it for months.
    Duane

    PS.
    You really can’t use parts books to answer these types of questions. They were used to supply replacement parts that were currently available at the time of their publication.

    They will not show what was available when the cars were new. That is asking them to do something they were never designed to do.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2024
  6. ibis1969

    ibis1969 Member

    I had no idea about these forms. As mentioned in an earlier post on this forum that JimW began, this car was ordered by my father when he worked for Buick as a zone rep based out of Kansas City. He has been gone for 30+ years now. I would assume he was versed in the car order forms given his role at Buick.

    The reason for the question about the wheel / brake combo initially was based in a conversation I had with my brother about the dog dish wheels vs. the rallye wheels and why Dad hadn't order the Rallye wheels. My brother said our father always told him that if the [front] disc brakes were ordered, the Rallye wheels weren't available.

    According to JimW, the front disc brakes were a rare option in '69. However, I have not been able to find out exactly how many GS', much less GS S1's had the option in that year. Knowing that my father was aware of the suspension, brake, and performance options available (he also had the Y43 H4 Rallye Road Control package option on the car as well), my guess is that he would've taken the performance brakes over the aesthetics of the Rallye wheels.
     
  7. Duane

    Duane Member

    I believe in 67 & 68 the only disc brake compatible wheels Buick offered were the Chevy Style Rallye wheels with the Buick centers.

    I believe those wheels were discontinued for 69 but I do not remember how many different type wheels were offered for the discs.

    I am more up on the 70-72 cars then the 69’s, even though I do have a 69.
    Duane
     
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  8. SpecialWagon65

    SpecialWagon65 Ted Nagel

    69_options_gs.jpg


    Power Disc Brakes (N.A. with V2) means no chrome wheels with the discs...
    (good to know for my 69 Stage 1 resto!)
    It does refer to "Specific Heavy Duty Wheels" as part of the towing package and the H6 Rallye Ride Control Package.
    Thanks to TeamBuick site for the image.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2024
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  9. SpecialWagon65

    SpecialWagon65 Ted Nagel

  10. Al_

    Al_ Well-Known Member

  11. Duane

    Duane Member

    It doesn’t look like there were any wheel restrictions for disc brakes for the Revision #2 cars. However that does not mean restrictions were not in place for cars built earlier.


    Just to note;
    That wholesale car order form is Revision #2. That means this was proceeded by the original one at the start of the production year, plus Revision #1.

    The revision you need to look at would depend on when the car was ordered, and if the options were changed another revision was created, (They date the sheets at the bottom so you know when the change took place, but the date is cut off on the one posted.)

    So once you find out your build date, you could determine which revision you need, and then find the info you are looking for.

    Hope this helps.
    Duane
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2024
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  12. ibis1969

    ibis1969 Member

    Great information!

    Per the cowl tag, the car was built in the third week of Nov. 1968. Per the Build Sheet, the car rolled off the line on 11/20/1968. Guessing the answer to my wheel question would be found in the initial wholesale form from the 1969 model year.
     
  13. pbr400

    pbr400 68GS400

    The fact that the wheels themselves weren’t changed during the ‘69 production year may muddy the waters. The ‘67-‘68 restriction was because the four piston calipers wouldn’t clear anything but the steel chevy style wheel. As far as I can tell, all ‘69 wheels clear ‘69 calipers, right? If neither the wheels nor the calipers were changed during the year, then any restriction would be based upon availability or some preference by Buick, not by fitment. (Sorta like the trim ring on steelies in ‘70, 14” vs. 15”)
    Patrick


    As an aside, I do know that ‘68 steel wheels (from a full wheelcover car) won’t clear the single piston caliper on an early ‘70s Firebird, but a ‘70s Buick rally will.

    One more edit: The ‘68 chrome rally is part number 1384134 and excludes discs.
    The ‘69-‘70 chrome rally is the same number and does not exclude discs. This, like Duane said, is from the parts catalog, not the order form. It appears there’s not a fitment issue with discs in ‘69, but that doesn’t mean it was offered. Same story with the ‘trim ring rally’, 1236969, like Mike Trommeter’s ‘68 has. It’s no go with discs in ‘68 but fits ‘69 up discs.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2024
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  14. Duane

    Duane Member

    “Guessing the answer to my wheel question would be found in the initial wholesale form……..”

    Yes, except if the revision #1 form predates the build date of your car.

    Isn’t this fun!!!!. Such a small question that needs a lot of research to get the right answer. Welcome to my world.
    Duane
     
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