Many of you may have read the thread called Poston Intake. The thread turned more into a why don't they build more performance 350 parts and it was partly my fault. That said, it was pointed out by Mike Sr and Jr at TA that the 350 crowd does not seem to be willing to purchase performance parts. The feeling is most Buick folks that want to go faster will switch to the BBB. The other issue is it will cost just as much to build a 350 as a 455. That said are you willing to purchase aluminum heads, single plain intakes and other items for the 350 or would you just build a 455? Would you be willing to help a vendor out by escrowing money so they are sure sales will be there when the parts are ready? Are you willing to commit to a product that could take 18 months to get? Are you just running a 350 because its fine and you don't care to go faster?
I'm kind of on the fence on this one. Mostly due to a limited budget and the fact that I use the car to cruise around in, not to race. But if my engine ever went and I had to rebuild it, I would certainly be interested to know what performance parts I could get for my 350.
I think my vote is somewhat an amalgamation of choices #1 & #3. I'm not sure my personal answer is truly indicated in the above choices, but I appreciate that you've tried to cover a spectrum of responses. I haven't decided which way I'll vote yet, but I'll yet reiterate what I said in my post in the Poston thread... I'm willing, but not able financially. It's my guess that a fair amount of 350 owners are in the same boat. I'm not ready to move to a Chevy yet, but if I were, a forged bottom end and an aluminum top end would be a lot easier to justify. But that's the thing. I want a Buick 350 and not a Chevy, and generally, aftermarket Buick performance is akin to a relatively healthy bank account. So, for the moment, I can simply give my vocal support. :TU: That said, it would be nice to see this thread flooded with overwhelming support and up-front cash to R&D parts. However, I don't really anticipate it.
"That said are you willing to purchase aluminum heads, single plain intakes and other items for the 350 or would you just build a 455?" The Buick 455 is a great engine, better than the 454 or Olds and Pontiac 455s, IMO. If you are going to spend $6000 on an engine, the 455 will always be a better bang-for-the-buck. "Would you be willing to help a vendor out by escrowing money so they are sure sales will be there when the parts are ready?" No "Are you willing to commit to a product that could take 18 months to get?" No, seen too many instances where it never materialized "Are you just running a 350 because its fine and you don't care to go faster?" Pretty much. It is reliable, perky, relatively good on gas, does what I need it to. chryco63 hit it on the head. It is sooooo much cheaper to do it with existing SBC parts, how much more are you willing to spend just to be different?
Alright. In my beer enhanced state, I will say this: A 350 can be built to make as much or more power than a street 455, for less cost, and will be more reliable, and FAR more economical. Holy can of worms Batman!!! Here's the logic: Power adders. Nitrous and boost are big time "playing feild" levelers, and both are cheaper to obtain than a substantial 455 build. Add in the vastly superior casting (can-o-worms-II) of the 350 block and you have a no-brainer. A street 350 can dish out mid to high teens on in-town miles per gallon if tuned right, and can take a serious can of whoop ass at the track when desired. If anyone wants to come to my house and go for a ride in my lame-ass, weak-suck, garage-floor, stone-stock, cast gut, stock headed, sissy-motored 350 car, COME ON DOWN!!! If anyone wants to see what it will run at the track, SEND MONEY! I'll run that sucker as hard as it can stand without, no, to hell with that, even WITH, if need be FAILURE, just to show what a 350 can do on the cheap. Anyone remember my "in the name of science" post? I wasn't kidding. I DARE you all, to chip in for me to take my car to the track, and shove 12psi of boost down its stock-ass throat. No different than Sean's R&D post right? It would give me a chance to try out my new (soon to be available) boost control valve! (Love my blatant product plug eh?)
For a race car, nitrous is the cheapest go-fast there is. My Olds wagon runs 12.7 at 103 with a 3.42 gear shifting at 4800 with a VERY mild (less than 100HP) tune. Yes, 4800. 13.9 off the bottle. But, it isn't there all the time. I agree, the 350 is a better choice for boost, but I kinda thought we were discussing N/A engines.
Yeah, I guess the title was "aluminum" parts, (like my all new aluminum X-Factors!!! (PLUG PLUG!!!)), but there were many references to "performance parts" in general, which I would certainly consider turbo kits a category therof.
Actually I think that you are doing a great job of trying to get 350 parts out to the people that want them. I would like to get one of those X-Factor intakes myself but I have run into some hard times where I have been laid off from 2 jobs now and I can't even get to the track myself. In the other post I didn't exactly want you to go out on the street and try to run some numbers for everyone. Maybe just try to find a highway somewhere where you can plant the thing to the floor. Put your camera in there and stand on it and run it up to 90 on the highway. That shouldn't take too long. What about 9sec or so? I think you have done a pretty good job of making parts. Don't stop. I also think that the turbos is a real good way to get the 350 rolling. I know about the turbos. I have a friend that is running a turbo on his 302 Mustang and he has now broken into the nines with his car. May I stretched it a little bit when I said that you might get 700 hp NA out of a 350 But I did see that Rob Margel's car put out over 500 hp I thought he got 550 hp with your X-Factor intake. That is probably with maxed out ported heads. 700 hp is only a 150 away. Can anyone say that if you had some TA alum heads on there that were ported a lot it would not get over 600hp NA? Add the Turbo or the Nitrous and it will be over 700. Stop building those Chevy motors and build a Buick one and test it. I understand that you need the Forged Pistons and the good Herch rods (maybe) that are out there to make the big numbers but I will bet thats about it. If I had the cash right now I would get the X-factor intake take it to the track run with and with out nitrous and give some good mumbers to go with it. I did my 350 for one reason only, I wanted to be different. Plus I seen Sonny Seals car run with the 350 in it and it ran real good. This was back in 1990. You do the math. I went 11.81 on a 125 shot of nitrous. My car weighs 3800 with me in it. My heads are ported but not like Rob's was. That is over 500 hp with a very small power adder. I also went 12.00 with just a 80 shot. Lets just go get another beer!:beer
Thanks Guy! I really appreciate your first hand understanding. Sonny Seal, Bill Mahoney, and our good old GS Johhny are some crazy 350 guys out there showing what can be done when fear is cast to the sidelines.
Ok everyone has a limited budget. How much you think it going to cost to put in a 455. You still have to do all the upgrades as with any engine to get it to run strong. But how much gas is it going to take to push that big 4 inch piston down the hole. This was a factor when I built my motor because I wanted to drive it on the street. Think about this. If you pull out the 350 and put in the 455 the 350 trans might not hold up. The rear might not hold up. You will have to upgrade all of these parts.
I'll sell my other cars to put away money for parts... that's if there was a definite guarantee or escrow type deal to prevent another bulldog fiasco
Hey not a problem. I am glad that someone out there has FINALLY made some performance 350 parts out there. Didn't mean to bust your balls too much on the other post, I just want to see that car of yours do a bake off down the road. You know the big tire smoking blast down the road with the camera in the car and run it up to about 90 or that's all.:TU: :beer
Words of the wise. Well said. BTW, the engine that is in much better shape than what I'm currently running, and will be boosted to that good old easy 750hp, was obtained for $50. Bang for the buck fellas!
Hey Guy, I just sold the converter from right under my car, and plan to buy the one I have wanted for quite some time. If I succeed, and can get it installed before the weather eats ****, tire destruction will commence!!! I only wish there was an anonomous camera running when I had the car out last as it blew the tires off for 2 gears, on dry pavement, from a dead stop. 92 octane pump gas, 8psi, 17.5" Mickey T ET streets. Both my buddy and I were astounded. Funny thing is, I still expect the car to suck "Shweaty Balls" (SNL anyone?), at the track because of my severe newbie nature to full passes. I guess if nothing else, I know where it likes to run on the street, so I'll put it there at the track, and hope for the best!
at cecil raceway; 1973 century with the skyhawk race motor. t/a intake and 1 3/4 headers were the only changes. now the power is way down. we ran 13.58 at 103+mph. finally wore out the shift points on the v6 t350 trans. but it still did over 102mph. i probably should have put the mopar intake on it to see really how fast a 73 body can go. probably high 12's. now this motor is just a test dummy for what i make to make it go faster. what you guys dont understand that the best buck for the 350 to improve is a single plane intake, ported heads and 2'' headers. you really dont need aluminum heads unless your going all out. its that simple. but if t/a made alum heads i would buy them for my testing of the 350. as for turbos, i got a carpet cleaner already :laugh:
I agree with gsjohnny1. Single Plane intake and heads or head work. I have already been putting money in the Burton SPS (Single Plane Special) Intake fund. It should be full up around Thanksgiving. :TU: I don't have 2 inch headers. I have the Ceramic coated Hooker Super Comps. I also have an 800CFM Q-Jet ready to go. I just got to find time to get it on. I have a 70 SP1 with 3.42 posi(G91) with Rallye Ride(F41) and Heavy Duty Energizer(T60). I need to spank my brother's 2007 Porsche Cayman. Thats 101 mph at 13.3. I need to go from the brown turd to fast as $hit through a goose.:Brow:
I voted number three,but that is mainly because I am broke. I would love to buildup my 350 and make the Camaros and Mustangs scared of seeing my grocery getter next to them at the lights. I personally don't like Nitrous,and turbos are a bit expensive.Parts are the best way for me to do it.
How about this "playing field leveler": Some insurance companies will not insure a car with a nitrous kit. If you can't insure, you probably can't legally operate the car--most but not all states require insurance. If you lie to your insurance company about the nitrous kit, it might be considered insurance fraud when (if) you make a claim. Big business and big government really bite.
Would be pretty hard for me to pre-order at this point. I'm planning a rebuild sometime in 09, I hope.
