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Coolant flow issue?

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by KELLY SONNABEND, Nov 17, 2024.

  1. KELLY SONNABEND

    KELLY SONNABEND Well-Known Member

    my brother has a fresh rebuilt 455 that he can't get the coolant to flow. I'm out of state trying to help. TA Stage 1 heads and a TA high flow pump. I'm thinking he has air in system? he already changed out thermostat. bottom of radiator stays cold. starts and oil pressure is good, any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. john.schaefer77

    john.schaefer77 Well-Known Member

    Just an idea. He changed the thermostat once already, is he sure he didn't put it backwards?
     
    GSX 554, Schurkey and Mark Demko like this.
  3. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    If he wants to be sure the cooling system is full, take out one of the plugs in the intake or the temp sender as you fill it.
     
  4. KELLY SONNABEND

    KELLY SONNABEND Well-Known Member

    i think that is his problem, I just assumed he would do that, but he hasn't put together an engine in over 30 years.
     
  5. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Coolant won't flow until the thermostat opens. Until then, a small amount will flow through the bypass hose. Also, our radiators are cross flow, so the temperature of the bottom of the radiator is not an indication of anything. The engine has to run long enough for the thermostat to open. Typically, if you run the engine with the radiator full, cap off, the coolant level will rise right before the stat opens, and when it does, the level will drop rapidly, and you will see some flow out of the tubes. I then fill the radiator as high as I can, then raise the RPM to about 1500. When you do that, the level will drop. I hold the RPM at 1500, fill the rad to the top, put the cap on, and let go of the throttle. NEVER had a problem with air in the system. A helper makes things easier.
     
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  6. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    I do the same, I figure the system will puke the excess into the overflow if it’s too much.
    And yes a helper makes it easier :D
     
    Dadrider likes this.
  7. Schurkey

    Schurkey Silver Level contributor

    HOW LONG is he allowing it to run? If it's not running long enough to build heat and open the 'stat, of course it "doesn't flow".

    Very unlikely to be a problem. Any air in the system gets blown into the radiator the instant the 'stat opens. Then it's seen as "low coolant level".

    Thermostat quality has plummeted. Not impossible that he's gotten multiple defective ones...but not likely either.
     
    Dadrider likes this.
  8. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Ive actually bound up a 455 with air after a "drain and fill". That's why I take a plug out of the intake on refill to ensure the block fills back up. On a t-stat replacement, I drill a 1/8" hole in the stat to allow the air to escape out of the block
     
    bostoncat68 likes this.
  9. Stevem

    Stevem Well-Known Member

    It's so easy to get air out of the system assuming the Stat is good.
    If up the system to that cold level mark on the side of the Rad ( that's why the factory put the dam thing there) then run the motor until the Stat opens and pop the Rad cap on just before the filler neck overflows.
     
  10. Schurkey

    Schurkey Silver Level contributor

    Have you noticed how none of the thermostat companies, or GM--Ford--Chrysler--AMC--Toyota--ETC., call for bigass permanent holes in the thermostats? Some 'stats come with "jiggle valves" which close as soon as the water pump starts providing pressure.

    Drilling thermostats is purely an aftermarket adventure, and almost never needed. About the only time it's actually useful is when the OEM thermostat bypass system is deleted.

    Closest I've ever seen is built-into the Robertshaw thermostats--a tiny lil' triangular vent stamped into the body of the 'stat. It doesn't take much to vent air.
    Robertshaw_Vent_01.jpg

    Robertshaw_Vent_02.jpg
     
  11. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Like I said, I've bound up Buick engines by not pulling a plug off the top of the intake.
     
  12. Stevem

    Stevem Well-Known Member

    What is your meaning in saying " bound up" ?
    Does this refer to no coolant flow?
     
  13. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Bound up with air. You drain the rad and then fill the cooling system back up. You wind up with the radiator full but the block now has a huge air pocket in it behind the thermostat. That's where the small 1/8" hole in the stat comes into play.
    Some engines provide a bleeder screw to burp the engine.

    Big air pocket like that and the thermostat won't necessarily open up

    Ask me how I know :D
     
  14. Schurkey

    Schurkey Silver Level contributor

    An eighth-inch hole in the thermostat is not "small". It's fookin' gigantic compared to the Robertshaw solution, which vents air just fine.

    And some guys drill multiple holes LARGER than an eighth-inch, even on vehicles with a functional cooling system bypass.
     
  15. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    I don't think it effects the operation of the thermostat after it's up to temperature. The stat is only acting as a restriction.
     
  16. Jack Daniel

    Jack Daniel Member

    I'm having an issue simular. 195 t-stat with 2 small holes top and bottom. It seems to overheat but is actually cool to the touch on rad cap. Temp shoots to 250 then when I punch it it cools down fast. Is that an indication of a bad waterpump? It's like it's not flowing until the engine revs up.
     
  17. Schurkey

    Schurkey Silver Level contributor

    Could be any one, or a combination of several problems.

    In no particular order:

    DOES THE FAN CLUTCH WORK PROPERLY???
    Radiator air-fins plugged with dirt, debris, butterflies, sparrows?
    Radiator air-fins corroded so they aren't touching the water tubes?
    Verify water pump pulley ratio
    Verify spark advance including vacuum advance. Retarded timing--including lack of vacuum advance--causes excess heat rejection to the cylinder head.
    Assure water pump is in good condition--which probably means removing it and actually looking at the impeller and the impeller clearance.
    Check fuel/air ratio when it's running hot. Lean fuel/air mix burns hotter, standing on the gas causes enrichment via the power valve/power piston.
     
  18. bostoncat68

    bostoncat68 Platinum Level Contributor

    Thanks to your advice I now pop one of the temp sensors (I have the two -gauge and light). It makes the fill simple and avoids fussing around with air pockets. Takes two secs.
     

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