I have TA Stg1 heads that have done by Mike at AMP and have the flow numbers. Comparing them to Stg2 heads I see that my numbers are very close to the same if not better. My question is where is the HP gain at? There is a set of Stg2 heads for sale with Gessler Level 2 work done and my numbers are better than those. What am I missing? I E .100 67 60 .200 146 124 .300 215 159 .400 272 195 .500 308 220 .600 325 233 Thanks Rick
i believe that the stage 2 heads will get you better exhaust flow numbers then the stage 1 with equal amounts of porting. the intake flow numbers will be the same. i may be wrong as i am no expert.
Correct, Intake ports between our Stage 1 and 2 heads are identical, the only difference is the exhaust ports. Remember though that the Intake port in a SE head is different than a TE head for both our Stage 1 and 2 heads.
Not sure if yours are the SE or TE Stage one Heads. On my GS, which is in the TA Catalog I run their Stage 1 TE Heads. If I was to do it again I would have gone with the Stage 2 TE heads instead. But it is what it is and I am happy with the heads no complaints at all running a best of 9.25 et. If you can gain some more increase on the heads you have, it may be cheaper to go that route. It all depends on how fast you want to go. Have to give thanks to Jim Weise at Tri-Shield and Mike Sr. at TA as when we did this project the heads were just coming out with mine being one of the first run of these heads. Tri-Shield did the heads with a complete competition port work. The heads looked too nice to even put on, oh and it ran as well as it looked too. At .500 lift Intake .332 At .600 lift Intake .354 At .700 lift Intake .360 At .500 lift Exhaust .240 At .600 lift Exhaust .253 At .700 lift Exhaust .258 JW installed Stage 3 oversized intake valves 2.250 11/32"stems and Stage 3 oversized exhaust valves 1.81" 11/32" stems One suggestion with the TA Stage 1 aluminum heads. We had my engine on the dyno with Doug Hecker and Rob Chilenski of Stage 1 Auto in attendance. We dyno'ed it with Hooker Headers with 2" primary tubes and a 3 1/2" collector. Well we swapped in Rob's custom headers using 2 1/8th inch primaries and 3 1/2" collectors and the very next pull on the dyno was a 29.7 horsepower gain!!! We did a few more pulls and the increase was consistent. What I am getting at is with the restricted breathing exhaust ports on the Stage 1 configuration we figure the larger header primary tubes added in the breathing gaining more HP.
Rick, I think it's all a matter of how much work is done. My Stage 1 Gessler level three exhaust ports outflow some ported Stage 2 numbers I've seen as well. Put the same amount of work into the Stage 2's and I'm sure they'd easily outflow mine. Devon
Rick, Not to get too far off track, but how much power did your engine make? Almost 30HP from a larger header is a bunch, and was just curious what kind of power we are talking about. Not doubting your results at all, just was curious about the big picture. Thanks, SB
The motor has 10.3:1 compression 593tq@4200 588hp@5700. The more power the merrier:beers2: Was thinking about going flat tops and chaning the cam. Thanks Rick
We had the same issue in the spring. Had the motor at the dyno shop and used 2" hooker headers that they had at the shop and the HP was down from where we figured it should of been. We were scratching our heads as to what it could be. Went home and got the TA 2 1/8" headers I run in the car and picked up 28hp more. You can put in the motor all you want but,if you are unable to get it out just as fast the performance will suffer. I'm also using the SE Stg.1s with 220.5in and 173ex @ .300 lift with working the short turn,more valve unshrouding and adding the 70* cut to the seat. My average exhaust to intake flow is 78%. I like using the .300 #'s because the engine is seeing this number twice. Once on the way up the cam lobe and once on the way down the lobe. Where the higher numbers are used only for a short time.
I should add that when we did this header swap the 2 1/8" headers from TA were not available. Had they been it would have been easier to just order them from TA. As with comparing the heads I do agree it's is mostly on how much and who does the work. I've known Greg Gessler as a friend since the early 80's he is an outstanding and knowledgeable guy and it shows in his work. Just that when I was building the engine an offer was made using my engine as a test bed for the Stage 1 TE heads. Also not to take anything away from Tri-Shield, JW also does top notch work, no complaints here either. With the Stage 2's though you have less limits on HP gains if you decide to go balls to the walls and empty out the green backs from your wallet. As with the header swap, just ask Rob Chilenski of Stage 1 Auto, he was witness to it. We were all shocked by the increase I should also mention we made no changes, no timing or jets etc, just a straight bolt on swap and the increase was consistent. I wanted to kidnap his headers after seeing the dyno numbers, he made me up a set which are on the car now. As for the HP, when we did the dyno it was raining and muggy. The dyno room was not climate controlled and the side door was left open as the inside air was stagnant so the temps were in the high 80's and it was humid. We made just under 800 hp and the compression on the engine is around 12.5.
My headers are 2 1/8" with 4" collectors. Those Dyno numbers were not with these headers. Thanks Rick
The larger headers will make a difference. Here is a link on the dyno 3 years ago after a rebuild on it. Broke a lifter bore. I'm not in the video, Doug Hecker and the other two guys on the engine are from LRB Performance. It was breaking in the cam then a half throttle pull and then our first full throttle 7,100 rpm pull. Music to my ears every winter, gives me that warm fuzzy feeling inside until SPring time.:Brow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT1CdZnK1sU&feature=channel_page
I certainly have no personal experience with stg 2's but two things I've always noticed and liked is that the headers appear to be closer to equal length primary tubes than the stg 1 headers and the primary tubes at the flange appear to have more room to make the first bend since the flange is not facing right at the crossmember. Both of these items could appear as HP on the dyno but not as flow on the flow bench.o No:
Thanks Rick. Like I said, I wasn't doubting the numbers, just curious as to the power level is all. SB
I don't know how much work goes into gessler level 2 porting, but my stage 2 heads with just a couple hour casting clean up flowed 307 in and 225 ex at .500
Rick What does your car weigh with you in it? also what was the weather on your best run? Just looking to see if I am close with my car 3350lbs St1 SE 347 intake with 2.250 1.755 valves 464 ci, best so far 9.93 weather was 500 DA here in Michigan
Rick What does your car weigh with you in it? also what was the weather on your best run? Just looking to see if I am close with my car 3350lbs St1 SE 347 intake with 2.250 1.755 valves 464 ci, best so far 9.93 weather was 500 DA here in Michigan
