I am getting a piston set for my 350 - but the only forged pistons aout there are the venolia's (which I was told by flatlander not to run these for the street, but i might anyway) and the custom wiseco's. Now there are more cast piston choices, and am wondering if there is a big benefit to the forged overtop of the cast its not a huge build, just hoping to get 350-400hp out of it, b/w 9 and 10 to 1, ta 212 (or 310) polished maybe a bit of port work. Do i need forged pistons? is there a hp/tq benefit to running them?
I would say no on the forged. At the level of power your looking at, the cast pistons should give you no problems. I've built a ton of motors with cast pistons ( some in excess of 550 hp ) the pistons never were an issue. Think about how many factory cars and trucks put out around 300+ hp at the rear tires!? That puts you at 400 hp at the flywheel/flexplate. Forged is used for its strength due to how its made. Now to answer your last question: I feel cast will make a small (very) amount of power over a forged everything else being equal such as weight, compression, etc... I think that cast relfects more heat back to the combution chamber/ thus asorbing less heat. I personally love useing ceramic coatings on the piston tops to help this heat loss and dry film on the piston skirts. Now to toot my horn about the strength of a cast piston( 455 ). Stock 455, 250 hp shot of NOS, never hurt a piston!!!! Had something like 110 1/4 mile passes and a bunch of street duty. Just a couple of head gaskets( leaned out ) fix the fuel issues and added studs. Give Jim Burek a call. He is a 350 Guru.
Cast Or Forged I would go with forged they are simply better than cast in every way BUT I would BEWARE who you buy these from I have bought alot of products from T/A with no hassle at all BUT when I ordered pistons for my 455 I GOT JIPPED I took all my parts to the machine shop that was doing my short block assembly and a few days later the owner calls me and says come down here we have a problem! I show up and He shows me the new T A perf pistons I just gave him they were cast but the real problem was they sent me 6 pistons from one company and 2 from another And the machinest stated that the wieghts were so far off it was going to take alot of extra time to ballence them and they werent even going to produce 10 1/2 --1 and the fact that they were cast and I was trying to get 10 1/2 --1 ratio I needed forged,,,, anything above 10 1/2 should be forged So bieng the nice guy that he was he said give me $120.00 more and I will keep these pistons and get you what you need So I gave him the T A junk and 120 and ended up with forged 10 1/2 forged pistons I think they were sealed power or speed pro I cant remember. You get what You pay for!!!!! :3gears:
Have you checked on Speed Pro forged pistons for your 350 ? I have photocopies out of an older Speed Pro catalog from the late 90's and they list a forged piston, part # L2343F and would be a stock replacement style piston. The following is what the specs show for compression with a 58.9 cc head: Std. size - 10.32 +.030 - 10.46 +.040 - 10.51 +.060 - 10.60 In my TA 99-00 catalog they show stock replacement forged pistons for the 350 in 8.5:1 and 10.2:1. More than likely they would be Speed Pro. If they are still available through Speed Pro, I may be able to get a good price on them. Tim
does s-p really make forged pistons? all i could find were hypereurectic pistons for the 350! How much $ were they listed at? EDIT: The cast pistons should easily be able to take it - the c6 Z06 engine (ls7 427- thats a sick egine stock!) has cast pistons, runs 11.1 comp - and 500hp But i'd rather find forged if i can for a good price - im thinking about a superchager in a couple years, maybe when a screw type comes out for a buick 350.
I wrestled with that issue a bit also(forged/hypers)I went with forged in my 462 for the peace of mind.I am not an engine builder and maybe a cast piston for your usage is o.k.Just my .2 cents.Later,Tony.
the forged pistons through TA have been temp. discontinued for who knows how long - I called about 2 weeks ago when i called to see how much a master engine kit was pricewise - only thing was that the forged pistons are like i said, temp discontinued. Thats what sent me on my search for other forged pistons, which ended up with venolia pistons at 431$ for f/t, 481 for domed or dish, and 501$ for rev-dish (anyone know what this is?) I emailed venolia about these, but no reply, so i called flatlander, in which case the guy said that venolia's are race only and should not be used on the street - he said to go with the wiseco's, but at 600$ a set plus duties and stuff (i live in canada) they would cost upward of 1200$$, which would be taking away from other parts. so thats were i'm stuck - cast or forged.
I've got some good news for you. :TU: I just got off the phone with our local CarQuest store, and they are showing the Speed Pro L2343F in all sizes (std., 30,40, & 60) as still a good number that is readily available. We don't get the best price from CarQuest, but they showed list as $81.77 and our cost at $58.41 per piston. If you want I can do some checking with a wholesale parts & accessories outfit to see what they would run. I bought a set of forged 455 pistons from them in '99 for $310, which was about as cheap as I could find at the time. Tim
that would be awsome - Thanks SO MUCH!! I'm gunna call my local carquest to see how much they want for their pistons.
Every way? If that was true, you'd find them in all the new performance engines, but you don't. I think Buick 494's post above was pretty accurate. To add to Buick 494's post, many of the newer high performance engine use hyper cast pistons, and get away with it because their computer controlled fuel/ignition systems can keep detonation under control. So, if you're not a good carb tuner, you may still want to consider forged to cover up some of your bad tuning abilities.
I'm still checking around on price, as there are a few different sources that usually deal pretty good. But so far it looks like it will still be easy to beat the CarQuest price I got considerably. There is a small price difference in the different sizes, std. is the cheapest. I did go on the Summit Racing site, and even under special order items, it wasn't listing the 350 piston, only a 455. On the PAW website it appears you need their catalog with the part numbers to actually price something. Tim
l2343f Hey Rizzie, my P.A.W. catalog has them listed at $432.00. If you want them with the Plasma Moly rings then ther are $485.00. They also show the same ratios as an earlier reply stated. They also have cast pistons for $223.00. not sure which brand. Tomgun
I called my carquest - the guy said he'd look at what he could for a set of forged pistons for my 350, so i'll see what he can do, if nothing, then i'll try P.A.W., and then after that, well, i hope i don't have to. Thanks everyone for all your help - i've never been in a forum that was this helpful!
I think we could probably get the pistons and moly rings for $400 or less at the other place I'm checking with. The only thing is being special order a person cannot return them. So a person has to be sure what size is needed beforehand. Even with our account at CarQuest pistons and rings would be at least $525. Just for the heck of it I looked on the Federal Mogul web site, and for some reason they don't list forged for the 350. But from the sources I checked so far it comes up as a good number to order. Maybe the website isn't updated completely, as Jim Weise told me F-M filed bankruptcy a couple years ago and for a while there were no pistons available from them. So they must have more available than what is listed on the site. Anyways, I looked at Hypereutectic pistons, and they showed that the skirts are now coated on them for both the 350 and 455. Tim
Forged pistons Forged pistons are insurance. Only thing is now days, I cant afford as much insurance as I once could. If you can afford them I say always go forged. :Smarty: they handle more heat,detonation,ect than cast. I really cannot understand a forged piston for racing that cant be driven on the street???????? Sounds like a bill of goods to me. o No: Be carefull. BTW, JEpiston company will make a piston for anything. :Brow:
I hope someone can help me. I found these post's a couple of days ago, I am building a twin turbo 350 for my 65 skylark, I am looking for engine parts, forged pistons, rods, ect... CAN ANYONE HELP!
Cast pistons typically have a steel insert to limit their expansion from cold to hot. Pistons expand more across the pins because of more material there and that is why pistons are not round when cold. Forged pistons can't be made with any insert to limit their expansion and therefore are made more oblong than a cast piston at room temperature to account for the extra expansion. This is why a forged piston has more bore clearance than a cast piston. Forged pistons will work on a street car but typically burn oil when cold (until they expand to round) and shorter ring life (forged piston typically use thinner ring to reduce friction but the looser fit and bigger clearances when cold cause them to wear out faster).
Is there still an effort to get 10:1 pistons for the 350 here? I will be ordering mine soon but I want to get all my facts in order. BTW, I pulled my LeSabre out of storage today, fired it up and took it for a quick spin. Everything is ok except for a bit of a trans fluid leak. There was a puddle under the car, so I checked it, topped it off and parked it, waiting for the header install which should be next week. Back on topic, can we still get cast pistons from CarQuest?
