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Can anyone help with GS 3-Speed Manual trans casting #`s?

Discussion in 'U-shift em' started by staged67gspwr, Oct 24, 2005.

  1. staged67gspwr

    staged67gspwr "The Black Widow"

    does anyone know where i can decode a dearborn 3-speed trans that came in the buicks?or does anyone what the casting number mean on them?

    Thanks
     
  2. SunBuick

    SunBuick Member

    George, I did a little digging.

    Some info(not gospel)
    For GTO's & Firebirds. The trans, if you got a 4 speed was a Muncie. Saginaw would NEVER stand up to the torque. If you wanted a heavy duty 4 speed you got the M22 Muncie rock crusher. Surprisingly, the M22 wasn't even the STRONGEST trans in a Ponch. The strongest unbreakable trans Pontiac used was their 3 speed. And many GTOS came with 3 speeds. The 3 speed was made in Dearborn Michigan...aka Ford Motor Company. It was identical to Ford's unbreakable 4 speed Top Loader transmission minus one gear. Pontiac used Ford 3 speeds right up to the 1969-71 Judge.

    I believe the order code for the Toploader 3 Speed Manual was M13 with the following ratio's 2.42:1 1.61:1 1.00:1 Reverse 2.33:1

    No real luck on a decode site. These are the two main info guys however one link is not currently working. You could Email them...

    The Toploader trans is a swap not too difficult to do with the right parts/info. For some info on the swap and parts/prices check out Dan Williams' site at www.toploadertransmissions.com and David Kees site at www.4speedtoploaders.com Both sites have a wealth of info on what RUG # trans

    A Hurst pic is attached.
     

    Attached Files:

    Mike Sobotka likes this.
  3. staged67gspwr

    staged67gspwr "The Black Widow"

    WOW thanks for the info Reg i`m gonna email them. :TU:

    Thanks
     
    Mike Sobotka likes this.
  4. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    Ford trannies are identified by a metal tag riveted to the passsenger side of the case, near the bellhousing.....the model ID is a 3 letter code, and a 2 or 3 digit suffix. For my '67 Fairlane it's RUG-J2 ....'RUG' is the style, and '-J2' is the specific application (390 GT)
    Casting numbers use the generic ford numbering system....
    C5AF-6060-B
    'C' is the decade.....1960's
    '5' is the year.........1965
    'A' is the car line ....Galaxie, etc. 'O' is Fairlane, 'Z' is Mustang
    Parts cast for a 'A' car may be used in other series of cars.
    'F' is the engineering division
    '6060' is the type of part. ie, cylinder head
    '-B' is the revision.

    Date codes.....'6B12' would be 1966....B=Feb.....12......day

    Nice pn system!, I wish GM would've used something similar!

    Did you get the original trans?
     
  5. staged67gspwr

    staged67gspwr "The Black Widow"

    Walt these casting #`s are also for GM cars i assume?i didnt get the trans yet i`m waiting for him to dig it out,he said the internals are busted but the case is intact.

    Thanks
     
  6. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    If the case was originally designed for a Ford application, it should have a Ford casting number on it....Most of the cases have numbers that specify it for a 'big' Ford....like C5'A'F.....as most cases will fit most lines of cars. The tailshaft is more likely to have been designed for a specific application....Galaxie (big), Fairlane (mid-size), Mustang, etc...
    I have no idea what casting numbers would be on the tailshaft for a GM application. If it fits a Ford, it would be a Ford number. If Ford made it for Gm...????. If GM made their own tailshafts, I guess it would have a GM number.
    The metal tag on the trans has the codes you need. But sometimes the tags break off.....hope it's still there!
     
  7. staged67gspwr

    staged67gspwr "The Black Widow"

    Yea i really hope the tag is still intact,here is a code off a GM car that i got does any of this ring a bell?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2007
  8. staged67gspwr

    staged67gspwr "The Black Widow"

    pic 2
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2007
  9. staged67gspwr

    staged67gspwr "The Black Widow"

    pic 3
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2007
  10. staged67gspwr

    staged67gspwr "The Black Widow"

    pic 4
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2007
  11. staged67gspwr

    staged67gspwr "The Black Widow"

    Does the tailhousing look the same as a Ford or does it look specific for a GM?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2007
  12. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    First pic:
    C8AR.......1968 big series car
    7006.....I think just means 'transmission case'
    C....is the revision. For a specific application
    Second pic:
    C5FR......1965, dunno what carline 'F' is for
    Third pic is a date code:
    9...1969
    D...April
    10...tenth day
    Fourth pic shows the ID tag. And the painted on code might be a GM code.
    Tailhousing....is that a C5AE? ....that would be 1965 big series. I don't know if if could fit GM.

    Keep in mind a C5AE (or 1965) number might've been used on later years. They only changed the casting number when they changed the casting...
     
  13. staged67gspwr

    staged67gspwr "The Black Widow"

    the painted code on the case is a DB same code as my protecto plate which probably means dearborn,thanks for the info on this,i`ll wait to see whats on my case as soon as he digs it out.

    Thanks
     
  14. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    Did you get the '67 Service Bulletin book I found you? Look in group 40...there should be a speedometer gear chart that lists tranny codes. My '66 book shows a 'KT' code which matches the code painted on my '66 4 speed trans. Even tho my protecto-plate shows a 'WA' trans code. I don't think the p-o-p code is the same as is on the trans.
    BTW, the '66 3 speed GS trans is a code KF....maybe that'll be painted on yours?

    In what book did I see the 'WA' code listed for '66? I know I saw it somewhere...
     
  15. staged67gspwr

    staged67gspwr "The Black Widow"

    I bought the book but i havent received it yet,as for the P-O-P code you are right i guess,so the trans tag should say a DB on it correct?all Muncie 4-speed cars in `67 have a P code on the protecto plate and on the trans.

    Thanks
     
  16. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    This is an old thread, but I have a Dearborn/ Ford 3 speed out of a 68 GS. Its coded "RAT-E1"

    Are you still interested in getting one George?
     
  17. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    I did some house cleaning inthe garage and its gotta go
     
  18. staged67gspwr

    staged67gspwr "The Black Widow"

    No i`m not Jason but good lookin out!
     
  19. Gary Barnhart

    Gary Barnhart Well-Known Member

    Just wanted to give some info. I have a 67 GS 400 convertible with a manual 3-speed on the floor with console and tach. I do have the original tranny and the date code is correct and it is a RAT E. I'm guessing that the RAT E was used in all 3-speed cars in 67. As far as casting numbers, I found that the same casting numbers were used for diffirent applications as well as years. The 3 digit code used for applications will tell you which tranny, year and month. Mine is 179, 1 is for 3-speed, 7 is for 1967 and 9 is the month. As far as I can tell, the RAT E was specifically used in non-ford vehicles since is doesn't appear on any of fords manual transmission application charts. If anyone has more input please feel free to chime in.
     
    SpecialWagon65 likes this.

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