ive had my Buick for about 3 years now im only 20 so i don't make the big bucks and im trying to do a budget build, not making a hot rod just want her to have some get up and go compared to stock. i have a fully rebuilt bottom end. and in my room are sitting a set of hookers headers, they are portmatched, arp head studs, comp hydraulic flat tappett cam specs duration advertised is 279/297, and lift .494.48[FONT=Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif]0. i have brand new springs and gaskets for the top end, i just need help finding which valves, and which rockers and push rods i should go with without losing an arm and a leg. im also interested in head porting but idk what that will cost around here in florida. things are expensive....any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks Kyle [/FONT]
First off,get your money back for those ARP head studs,they won't be needed for what your doing. ARP head bolts would be more than good enough,and less expensive(if they make them for sbb,not sure). But I think that your stock head bolts should just be fine to re-use,and you already have those,more $ to go else where. What is the duration @ .050? That number is more important to know than than the advertised number. It will tell people what RPM range the cam wants to make power.(unless your Sean_76 and you have every sbb 350 cam spec memerized.LOL)No dis-respect Sean,I only have respect for you,and can't wait for your book to come out. What transmission are you running,what stall coverter? What rearend gear is in it? Before you do anything,you need to know what your final combonation is going to end up with.In other words,you want to make sure everything matches. Especially the camstick your running is going to dictate what stall speed you will need,and what rearend gear ratio you will need. (you didn't mention what Buick you have,so I will guess a little) If you have a T350 transmission,and say your camstick is 234 int. and 244 ex. duration @ .050 a 2500-2800 rpm stall will be needed,and a 3.73 rearend gear. If you have a 3.08 gear now,you can go with a 700R4 trans and keep your 3.08 rear gear.Or if you go with a 200R4,then you will need a 3.42 gear. Basically you want your 1st gear multication to be around 9.5 to 1 plus or minus .5 with a performance cam,even more if your cam is much bigger. A stock cam will give you much more low end get up and go with stock gears,so until your ready to change gear ratios,hold off on installing the cam. Head porting,bigger valves,headers will all get you better get up and go with a stock cam.Without changing gearing,a bigger cam will slow you down,and kill whatever fuel economy you have,so do that last. Or change the gearing first,everyone is in such a hurry to hop up their motor,when gearing is the first thing that should be considered when you want to go faster,something to think about. And with the better gearing in it,tire roasting is much much easier with a stock type cam,it can get expensive buying tires though.LOL To have $$ to go elsewhere,you may want to consider getting your money back on the cam,and springs for now,and get a rearend gear set,and match it to the trans you will end up with. Overdive is good to have,better MPGs,keeps the RPM down on your engine,less RPM= longer engine life,and their first gear ratios are much better vs a 2 or three speed trans. Oh yeah,you didn't say,so I assumed you have an automatic,if you have a 4 speed manual,you should be able to put the cam in it without slowing you down,you'll just have to lauch it at higher RPM to get it in the power range.(bad on connecting parts though) P.S. Give us more info about your car ,it will be easier to help you. Like what Buick(that will give us an idea of the weight) do you have,what transmission is in it,what is your rearend gear ratio,what is the duration @ .050 does you cam have,what carburater are you running.....and what ever else I forgot.It'll all be worth it in the end. Enjoy!
Kyle The cam you have is the smallest of the Thumpr series. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-K92-600-5/ It has a lot of midrange and with the headers will have good upper rpm power also. The main feature of this cam is the rough idle due to the 107 LSA and is intended to give a lopey hot rod sound. Because of the increased overlap the power comes on abruptly just above 2000 rpm as it comes into a strong midrange. The increased overlap does decrease fuel mileage and manifold vacuum. It all depends on what you want. Paul
If you are short on cash then save up and do the build right when you have time. For now swap on the Hooker headers, add a petronix point eliminator kit, re-curve the timing (FAQ section on here, power timing thread), and have the carb rebuilt by everyday performance in the vendors section. This will get you a good improvement without takign appart your good running engine. The extra power will not help without possi so make that your next move. Send a PM to monzaz on the board and he can set you up Have the heads ported and oversized valves from TA Performance added. Budget about $1200 for the head work if you want to make power this is the best money you can spend! The stock rockers are fine, and the stock pushrods are fine unless you mill the heads. I do not advice adding the camshaft and other parts and not having the heads ported, do it right when you do it and you shoudl have years of smiles!
with the parts you have....like sean said change the dist. I would change to a hei for less $ and just recurve the thing ( total cost less that $100 ) the next best change for around town running will be gears... ( whats in there now ?) maybe go with 3.42 or even better 3.73. The heads are the best change you can make but your gonna spend some coin so after the gears maybe next a nice 2600 stall converter and then the cam will work. my little 2 cents worth.
My 2 cents! First either sell or save the thumpr cam for later as it requires gears, stall and head work to come alive which equals lots of money. If you still have all your stock parts here is a simple recipe for a nice street motor with alittle more go and reliability. TA oil pump shim kit. TA 212 cam. lifters and springs. FlowKooler water pump and 160 thermostat. HEI distributor. Headers, Quadrajet carb. Tricks for more power and better fuel economy... have the cam degreed in and the distributor recurved to the cam. If you haven't had your carb rebuilt now would be a good time. Spend your money where it counts and save for your gears, stall and head work at a later date when you have more money. Good Luck on your build!
ok answering questions, its a 1972 buick skylark, its a gs clone ive been working on the reason i decided to start building the top end is because im quite certain the valve stem seals need to be replaced, it is burning a good amount of oil. and it kills me knowing she is in pain. i have the cam kit already so i guess scratch the idea of returning it, i have posi with 373 gears in the rear. the transmission is a th350 with stock stall, i am unsure what u mean about the .50 duration and more info would help me clarify. to my knowledge the only aftermarket on this motor is exhaust minus the headers sitting in my room. an edelbrock carb which in my opinion is a piece of junk. i believe it is a 650 cfm fourbarrel. the car runs good just buring enough oil where im fed up with it. i want her back in good health and with alittle more bite than bark.
after reading your first post again, If you have a flat tappet comp cam your gonna need either roller rockers or adjustable pushrods to nake that cam work as the stock configuration is not adjustable. What is the comp ratio of that motor ? If it is a low +/- 9-1 that cam is gonna be a dog without alot of converter to help.
Kyle About the .050 lift duration: If you look at the link for your cam specs you will see Duration @ .050" lift, Intake 227, Exhaust 241 That is the duration from when the lifter (Not the valve) is .050" up the cam lobe when it is opening and when it is .050" from the bottom of the the cam lobe as the valve is closing. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=1453&sb=2 Hopefully you have the cam card in the box that has all the specs including what position to degree the cam in at. You will need a degree wheel and a dial indicator to do this job. Follow Jim Weise thread on cam degreeing: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?220945-Camshaft-degreeing-101 According to Comp Cam page the intake centerline needs to be set at 102 degrees ATDC. That is a 5 degree advance. This means the .050" intake opening lobe lift needs to be set at 11.5 degrees BTDC which should put the intake closing .050" at 35.5 degrees ABDC. Paul
Sounds like a nice ride Kyle. Duration @ .050 is a cam spec. that should be on your cam card,this spec. is a better determining factor of what RPM power range the the cam will run in. That doesn't matter because pmuller9 figured out what cam you have. Its nice to see that you have a posi with some nice gears,but with the cam you have you will need a stall converter for your transmission,about a 2500 stall should work nicely. Now Kyle,have you ran an compression test on your engine yet? If not,this should be done before any upgrades are made.This test will determine if the low end will respond well and handle your planned mods. It is a very simple test to do,just takes a little time. There are 2 ways to do this test, wet,and dry.The first time you test,will be the dry test,and if your cylinder pessures are above 120 PSI,and within 10 PSI of al eight cylinders,your good to go and no need for a wet test.If this is not the case,a wet test will be needed to determine where the pressure leak is. The wet test is done by spraying some kind of arasol oil in the spark plug hole,I like WD40 because it will quikly burn after your done and the engine is started. If pessure increases with this test,that means you are losing pressure through your rings(not good)and the engine should be removed for a rebuild,and would explain where the oil is coming from that it is burning. If the pressure doesn't change,then that means more than likely you will need a valve job because the pressure is being lost through the valves not sealing. If a valve job is required,and the heads need to be removed,this is a good oppertunity to get some porting done also,at least do a gasket match,and a bowl blend,there is info on here if you want to attempt to do this yourself,if you have the means to. Make sure you are dealing with a reputable machine shop,maybe some one can recommend one in you area. If your going to do the port work yourself,do yourself a favor and have your machine shop disassemble and clean them for you first,a lot easier handling this way.when your done,bring them back and have them do the valve job AFTER they are ported. After the heads are back on,do another dry compression test(the intake manifold,valve covers,or headers doesn't need to be re-installed yet). If the pressure is up,your good to go and can now tear into the front cover to install your cam. If pressure is still down(not good) this means that both your heads and your rings were leaking pressure,and the engine should be removed for a rebuild. It is a lot of work to do all of this,and a big commitment,and your car will be out of commision for a while,but with your patients,and hard work,you will be rewarded in the end. Goodluck,and if you get stumped,DON'T guess,ask,we're all here to help.
Welcome to the board, Kyle. Great-looking '72 you have there! Not intending to cause any offense, but are you absolutely sure you have a Buick 350 under the hood? Just have to be sure what you're working with before you get too far into the project. A lot can happen under the hood in 40 years! --Chris
Kyle, You have the gears already. The Thumpr cam will run just fine in your low comp motor. You will need at least a 2200-2500 stall converter to really wake it up and at least a 800cfm carb. You will also need adjustable push rods. You can use the stock rocker arms. find a shop that does good head work and spend your money there. You have everything else already. you are on the right track. just pay attention to the details.
ok guys, i was able to return the cam kit and get my money back, what valves, springs and cam would you recomend for a street perfomance build? i heard the 212 cam from ta perfomance but what kind of numbers am i going to get? i have a buddy that has a 750 quadrajet he will sell me for 100 dollars its completely rebuilt. I should keep the stock style pushrods and rockers? and im running a compression test today im borrowing the tester from my buddy. one question about it though, if they all check out good how do i figure what the compression ration is i think i had it done when i first bought it and they all were 8.5 :1 but im not cetain. im gonna use the money that i just got back to rebuild the top end and then ill but the cam it at a later time sound good? i have never rebuild heads for a buick are there any special things i need to know? thanks as always, Kyle ---------- Post added at 09:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 AM ---------- and chris im posotive its a buick 350 haha i understand your concern im young. its way to wide to be a chevy 350 which i have had many of. she makes my dads chevy loook like a little girl lmao. ---------- Post added at 09:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 AM ---------- one more question what lifters are recommended thanks, Kyle
Kyle, Lets get back to the basics on this... A. you have a freshly rebuilt buick 350 short block correct? Did you have the block rebuilt to stock specs or did you have the block modified? B. you have not done anything with the heads yet correct? C. what year is your block? and what year are your heads? D. you currently have no carb correct? E. you current have no cam correct? F. you have a 3.73 posi rear end correct? G you have a TH350 with stock stall converter correct? Once we know what you are working with we can assist you with details for a good street setup.
Hey Kyle,thats cool that you could bring the cam kit back,you'll need all the $$$s you can scrape up to get your heads done.Depending on what you have done,and the pricing from your machine shop,things can get quite pricey.There are alot of options for a street perfomance build,some cost more than others.Right now you should focus on having your heads done,this can get costly,the other stuff can be added on later.Here is some performace valve prices from TA; TA 1432A 350 Stage 1 Valve Set ............................. $225.00TA 1080 350, 1.920 Intake ............................... $125.00TA 1090 350, 1.550 Exhaust ............................ $125.00 Here are stock valve prices from TA; SRV 3501.875 int. 1.55 ex.$189.00 Stock style push rods,and rockers will be fine for now.You can save some money by reusing your springs for now,but when you get a cam,you will have to change them. A compession test DOES NOT messure your compession ratio,it messures PSI(pounds per sqare inch).Your compression ratio is messured by adding your piston volume,head gasket volume,cylinder head volume,and stroke.This is done with the engine in peices,not while its together. The PSI of your engine will tell you if you have enough cylinder pessure to get an efficant burn. Rebuilding heads should be left to a professional,because they will have all the equipment needed to do this properly,you need to find a machine shop.If you plan on doing port work yourself,have the shop disassemble them and clean them first,tell them to call you when this is done so you can pick them up to do what ever porting you are planning.When done,bring them back so they can regrind your seats(they should have your valves reground and ready for when you return the heads,unless you are going to buy new valves those should be ready when you bring the heads back also)and assemble your heads. The QJ sounds like a good idea,but before you hand over the $$$ for it,get the numbers off the carb and post them,someone should be able to ID it for you so you know for sure it will work for you. As for lifters,those won't be required until you get a new cam,new lifters on an old cam will cause a lot more problems than what you want to deal with. Cam,when your ready for one of these,I highly recommend looking at a roller cam.Sure they are more pricey,but you won't have to deal with a cam lobe(or all of them) being wiped out.Some of the roller grinds available give great low end torque,with added rpm power,can't be beat for the street.Plus if you get the right one,it will work very well with your 8.5:1 engine(if that is what you have).And with a roller cam(in case you didn't know)you have to use roller lifters. With todays oil not have the proper friction modifiers in them,the money you save on not having to buy expensive flat tappet racing oil should pay for the cam over time.(if you plan on having the car for a long time) Another good thing about a roller cam,there is very little wear on them.So if down the road you wanted to upgade your cam,it should have a decent resale value to sell the cam and matching springs(if you need different springs with the new cam).The roller lifters can be reused with the new cam. If I forgot something let me know. And here is a link for TA performance; http://taperformance.com/
Unless the Q jet is from a Buick 350 do not bother with it. Go with a Q jet from a Buick 350 becuse it will be calibrated for your engine. The best place I know of to get a properly rebuilt Buick Q jet is Everyday Performance in the vendors section, if they do not have a Buick 350 carb listed e-mail him and he will find you one. I agree, rebuild the heads now and do the cam swap later. If you can not afford the head porting now then just use stock sized valves. If you do have the heads ported spring for the valves. The heads are the area that the most potential for gains is. When you get the heads off take a picture of the pistons and we can tell you if they are low compression pistons. Also measure how far they sit in the hole and we can get an idea of the compression ratio. If you do have low comp pistons I would have the heads shaved about 70 thou and have the intake shaved to match, then use adjustable pushrods from TA to get the lifter pre-load correct. I have gotten 9.3:1 compression using low comp pistons and that is great for a street car. Much higher is not good unless you want to use premium fuel all the time. When you do the cam swap later, your car would really like a TA284 given the gearing you have! A roller cam is great if you have the $ but most people can not afford them. A typical 350 build with 10:1 compression is about 350 using a mild cam like a TA212, BUT that is only if the head porting is done well. Without that, drop 50 HP.
In this link for Ta,the cam doesn't look to over priced,seems reasonable; http://taperformance.com/products.asp?cat=456 Didn't see hyd. roller lifters threre though,but I think there are available at summit,for around $300.Like I wrote earlier,a little pricey,but well worth it. o No: If you ever had a cam get wiped out on a freshly rebuilt engine(twice),it kinda makes you not want to screw around with flat tappit cams anymore. That was when there was the perfect storm for that to happen,when they changed the formula for oil and the only lifters you could get were made in china,I think it was back in 2006. It sucks when you do everything right,and everything goes wrong. Any engine I do for myself,I will always opt for a roller if available for that engine,and a engine I do for some one else,I try to convince them to use one too.But its dealers choice. If you do decide to run a flat tappit cam,ALWAYS use the friction modifiers every oil change,or buy the oil with them in there. And make sure you follow the breakin procedure to the letter. Hey Sean,does Canada still use the good oil in the great white north? If so,I'll have to make a run for the border to change my oil,some of my junk still have flat tappits.Actually I have to drive south to go to Canada(LOL),I live north of Detroit where the bridge and tunnel are.
Do notice that the price is for a blank camshaft.. add 190 bucks to grind it.. Pricey, but nice.. ---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ---------- TA sells the roller lifters for 695..
I agree roller cams are great! It is about $900 more to go roller vs. flat tappet and you might as well get roller rockers at that point so another $600 hit. You need to add a cam button to the timing cover, and also buy special valvesprings to make it all work properly. Oh, and some people have had the camshaft hit the weights of the crank requiring a rebuild and balance of the bottom end.... :eek2: canada has the same terrible oil regulations. I jsut use tractor oil as it has lots of good stuff in it. I still use the zinc addative as well. :TU:
I didn't see the $189 til I went back and clicked the red down arrow,and the $695 rockers are solid lifters,the only hyd. ones were for the V6 and those might not have a tie bar,they don't say. I thought I saw Howards cams brand roller lifters for sbb in the Competition Productucts catalog,or Jegs or Summit,I was mistaken,only for 401-425-455 is the listing. Yeah,those prices are hard to swallow,I'll have to see what I can come up with,OLD SCHOOL,to adapt some newer tech to a dinasaur.lol I did some looking,and it looks like the big block buicks,and Cadillac use the same flat tappits as the small block buicks(the oil hole is in a different spot with the others),the only difference might be the tie bar. A little tie bar slotting and it should drop right in,down the road.(or have the manufacturer do it,it doesn't look like the tie bar will disconnect,dagnabit!!). I WILL figure somethig out before I put my sbb 300 stroker together(there may be some Rover stuff that might work for mine anyway). I'll have to give Howards Cams a call and see if I can persuade them to make some more sbb Buick stuff. I think TA needs a little more competition anyway,maybe they'll put out some roller cams also. Or,figure out how to attach the spider for the dog bones on the factory V6 roller lifters.(will still need 2 more legs to be a spider,whatever a 6 leg bug is lol)hold them down some how. I really hate flat tappit cams,once bitten twice shy I guess. To be continued...........(probably on a different thread) Sorry to get a little off track Kyle,but your not ready for a cam yet,and when you are this may get figured out and be helpful for you. ---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 PM ---------- You forgot the small block chevy conversion option from Mark Burton for the roller rockers,isn't that a 50% haircut off that $600 price tag? I'll be making my own with no machining required on the heads to install. And make sure that tractor oil has the anti-foaming agents in it,if not your oil pan will be full of aerated oil(foam). The diesel oils out have it,don't know much about tractor oil though.
