I have a 65' lark with the 300/310 wildcat and the factory 2 bbl rochester carb....it does have the super turbine 300 switch pitch trans.....looking to add a little more power...thought I could find a 4 bbl intake and carb setup from another 300 engine and just plug and play thing ??? or more involved than that ??? if anyone has any other ideas about it please chime in... ....not after a rebuild...300 runs good...just wanting to make it growl just a little more ....I have already converted to HEI....and electric fan and aluminum radiator(runs really cool)...so I was just leaning to put a 4bbl carb on it and dual exhaust to let some more air/fuel in.....
Good idea. May be difficult to find what you want. The 300 engine was used in 1964 with aluminum heads and intake, some say it will fit the 65 and up some say no. The 300 with cast iron heads and intake was used in 1965-66-67. But the 4bbl carb with cast iron intake was only used in 1965, in any body size that had a 300ci engine. No other intake from any size engine will fit the 300, just 300. So what you are looking for is usually not easy to find. Consider how many people have wanted these parts since 1965. It can happen so think positive. Good luck, Mike
thanks Mike...I'll keep looking...going to Turkey Rod Run in Daytona this thanks giving so I'll look hard there...
Before "upgrading" to a 4 bbl, upgrading to an at least 3 speed trans would be the biggest seat of the pants improvement for your car, a 200R4 would be even better! After experiencing what the extra gearing does for you your next step would be upgrading to at least a 3.42:1 rear gear to match up with the 200R4 O/D. And if after those 2 upgrades you want more higher RPM HP, then a 4 bbl and better exhaust would be the ticket but until then a 4 bbl will just slow you down from a dead start and trade off low RPM torque for a couple more higher RPM HP. GL Derek
Buick used a 340ci engine in 1966 and 67 which could be equipped with a 4bbl, but that intake will NOT fit the 300. Remember, nothing fits the 300 but 300 stuff. Mike
I hear an aluminum manifold will bolt to cast iron heads but the port don't line-up very well, the on intake runners are 1/4" smaller in both directions on the aluminum manifold. I'll probably start a war by writing this, but, I wouldn't consider a change from an ST300 to a 350 to be an upgrade. The switch pitch converter will get you out of the hole better than the first gear in a 350. They only made the switch pitch 300/400 about 4 years and stopped because it was expensive. The only trans I would replace a ST300 with would be a 200R4.
I have a completely refurbished set of aluminum heads with new springs and the rockers, the bolts for them, valve covers, exhaust manifolds, intake which has been blasted and has all the various fittings still with it and the 4-barrel carb, which would need rebuilt, from a 1964 300 engine. PM me if you'd be interested.
http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?301292-300-4bbl-intake-ID&p=2495916&highlight=#post2495916 This thread has the casting number and a picture of the 65 300 4bbl intake. Mike
Increasing the size of your Rochester 2g carb is the best way to go here, in my opinion. You will add a bit more low-end grunt and increase your mid range HP without changing the engine's powerband much, unlike adding a 4 barrel carb, which will raise torque band to higher RPM while not really increasing the upper RPMs much on a stock-mild engine--particularly with 300 cubes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to 4 barrel carbs. If that's what you want, it's all good. I'm just letting you know what to expect. Changing your gear ratio will help with the use of the 4 barrel carb, but as you can see, will be more of a PITA. Much simpler to massage what you have now, and will add a surprising amount of power if you rebuild the engine with special attention paid to its assembly and improving airflow quality using your existing parts. Increase 2g size and rejet/powertune. Use mandrel bent exhaust pipe with a similar diameter to the exit port size of your manifolds, leading up to either the scavenger series "Y" pipe and 2 1/2" single exhaust, or a 2" dual up to an "X" pipe. I recommend the "Y" pipe for your combination. Not just any "Y" pipe. Flowmaster 'scavenger series' "Y" pipe. This matters, believe it or not. With the ST300 trans, the 2g will outperform the 4 barrel carb when using the aforementioned suggestions. Gary
Unless you are just looking for "eye candy appeal" do what the others have suggested and get different rear gears or at least a 3 speed transmission or duals if you don't already have them. I went the "eye candy" route and found out that unless you use the right carb (not an Edelbrock) you will have to fab the kickdown to make your switch pitch transmission work properly and you can't use your stock air cleaner. I was getting 18 mpg with the 2 barrel, and now getting 15 mpg with the carter 4 barrel. Car doesn't seem any faster until around 3-4 thousand rpm when the 4 barrel kicks in. So unless you are going to spend a lot of time in that rpm range nothing is different. You are going to spend around $300 for the manifold and then $150+ for a good carb that will work. Spend that money on a 350 transmission or a 200r4 and go faster. Just my opinion, but I have been there and done that and have numerous posts about the problems I had trying to fix what really wasn't broken.
Here's deal, your car weighs around 3,100 to 3,600 LBS and the engine is only 300 CID that was built for lower RPM operation that is able to burn the lesser expensive gas, basically the economy model from back in the day. If you just installed a 4bbl intake and carb with that being the only change, off the line performance will suffer immensely. The 4bbl 300 from back in the day had 11:1 compression in '64 with aluminum heads and I think at least 10.25:1 in '65 with cast iron heads with both years the 2bbl only at 9.0:1 compression. I would also hazard to guess that the rear gear in the 4bbl car were numerically higher as well to match the higher RPM range the 4bbl engines have. The best off the line add on you could do without changing anything else would be to swap in a 700R4 trans with its 3.06:1 1st gear ratio. Some people don't like the big drop off from 1st gear to second gear with the 700R4 but if the car has a gear between 2.93:1 to 3.36:1 the 700R4 would work well with those gears without having to change them to get that weight moving with the extra gearing. With the listed gears the 700R4 will shift into O/D close to 45 mph without straining the engine to run in an RPM that doesn't have power in that RPM range. With a 700R4 the driveshaft would need to be shortened and an adapter to bolt it to the Buick engine is also needed along with moving the cross member back a few inches. If the car already has a 3.42:1 or up gear, a 200R4 would be the better choice. The 200R4 needs at least a 3.42:1 rear gear to be able to shift into O/D around 45 mph without straining the engine to run in an RPM range that is to low that isn't making enough power to keep the weight moving. A 200R4 can use the driveshaft you have without altering it and it is a direct bolt on to the sbb 300 but the cross member needs to be moved back a few inches. Both of the 200R4 and 700R4 transmissions will need a TV(throttle valve) cable hooked up to the carb. The TV cable increases fluid pressure in the trans when engine load increases with the throttle being opened. Running without the TV cable can kill one of these transmissions FAST just so you know. If the car has a 2.73:1 or numerically lower gear then it would need to be changed anyway to take advantage of one of the O/D transmissions mentioned. So if that is the case then the 200R4 would be the easiest one to swap in, try to find a 200R4 out of a GN or a Corvette if you are trying to find a good used one. If you find that the gear is numerically lower than 2.73:1 then a swap to a 3.42:1 or numerically higher gear ratio would be the first upgrade that will make a big difference even with the ST300 trans. My personal choice if I knew that the sbb 300 is the engine that will be the one I planned on keeping in there would be a 3.90:1 gear if I could find one if not a 3.73:1 would be my 2nd choice. Start from the rear gear and work your way up front. By the time you get used to the better gearing of a new rear gear and want more then the trans swap would be next. If you think you need more upper RPM HP then start reconfiguring the engine. A sbb 300 with a sbb 350 crank in it with a set of TA Rover aluminum heads and a ported '64 4bbl aluminum intake to top it off would run SWEET! If you got the block sonic tested you may even be able to take it out to a 4.00" bore and stroke the sbb 350 crank to 3.990" to make the little 300 a sbb 401 CID!!:Brow: An extra 101 CID would be a great upgrade if the block sonic tests good enough. Even if it doesn't it could sonic test good enough for a 3.905" bore to build a 383 CID sbb. This is all after you get your gearing more modern to take advantage of what power the engine has now and if you feel the need for even more speed. GL Derek
Depends on what pistons are used. There are off the shelf pistons that will work with the 340/350 rods in a 300 block with the 340/350 crank. As well as pistons that will work with the sbb 300 rods with the 340/350 crank but what would be better than the 300 rods would be 6.00" small journal sbc rods so the Oldsmobile pistons aren't so far in the hole. But in my opinion a set of nascar take out rods would be the best way to go, because they are stronger and lighter than the cast factory rods. The nascar take out rod sets come in a variety of lengths and journal sizes and most of the time are less expensive than aftermarket sbc rods and most of the time even less expensive than having stock rods rebuilt but require more planning to use them. The sbb 350 AutoTec pistons can be used with the nascar take out rods or even with one of the stock Buick sets of rods because of the customability that the AutoTec pistons have. These are nice pistons to use for the N/A type builds, for a boost type build a piston made from the 2618 material would be the better way to go. Derek
Ah, the poor misunderstood ST300... It's not all bad. There's pros and cons to everything, but let me explain a couple things about this transmission that many do not know--probably because they have never used one. All they see are gear ratios on paper. I have used them before, and have made direct comparisons between them and a TH375 and TH400 transmissions. The 375 is basically a 400 with a couple less clutches. First, let me point out that all transmissions take power to turn. This parasitic loss cannot be avoided, but if it can be lessened, it's like adding 'free' power to your engine, much like 'blueprinting' adds power by simply not taking it away in the first place. Less parasitic loss = more power to the ground. Let's take a quick look at the parasitic loss between three transmissions: TH400 = 44 hp lost TH350 = 36 hp lost ST300 = 18 hp lost As you can see, it takes twice as much power to turn a TH350 than it does an ST300. The reason for this is the ST300 is so simple and requires less components to function, which requires much less power to turn. The ST300 consists of 2 clutch packs (forward 'high' and reverse), and one large band that wraps around the forward clutch pack, that when tightened, activates the 'low gear'. That's it. When the transmission shifts from low to high, the clutch band loosens and allows the activation of the forward clutch pack. These are on two separate channels if I'm not mistaken, so there's a 'delay' in the shift, which transitions slower than a 1-2 shift from a TH400. You won't get the tire-chirping shift with an ST300, but instead a smooth transition from low to high. This also makes it easier on the rest of the drivetrain. There are no shift kits or 'high performance' rebuild kits that I know of for the ST300. The factory parts are heavy duty enough. I had a 10:1 455 in front of one of these transmissions with no issues, and it held up under many 'neutral drops' with the 350 just fine. Don't let the '300' fool you. It's a durable transmission. I never destroyed an ST300, despite all the abuse I put it through. I have, however, destroyed a 400 before with a Buick 430 in an Electra, over many months of full throttle neutral drops. Not saying it's indestructible. I'm just relaying my experiences with one. Having said all that, there's another advantage the ST300 gives: mechanical torque multiplication. This is much higher than any 3 speed transmission due to the engineering behind the 2 speed planetary gearing, and when coupled with the ~2.5:1 hydraulic torque multiplication of the torque converter, allows that 1.765:1 first gear to move the car from a dead stop much faster than you'd ever imagine. It will never have the same gear ratio take off potential as a 3 speed transmission. This is the ST300's only real 'weakness'. But it's no where near as bad as people think. It's *almost* as good from a dead stop as a 3 speed, believe it or not, and when the car gains some speed, say around 20-30 MPH or so, the strengths of the ST300 shine through and make the 3 speed transmission pale in comparison, due to continued torque multiplication where the 3 speed's is trailing off quick. In addition to this, the parasitic loss becomes even more painfully apparent once the 3 speed transmission shifts out of 1st gear, which was its only real advantage in the first place. Once you hit 2nd in a 3 speed trans, it's a slug compared to the ST300. No words can do it justice. Anyone here who's used an ST300 will be able to attest to this, especially if they have ever directly compared it to a 3 speed trans after a swap. If your main objective is drag racing, you will probably be happier with a TH350. For street use, don't discredit the ST300's advantages. Gary Edit: I need to add here something else that I observed: the ST300 loves torque. It responds very well to low-mid range powered engines with street gears. The more torque you add to it, the more it gets multiplied. On a low torque engine, this may not be as noticeable, but for a high comp 350-2 it does extremely well. The 10:1 455 was unfreakinbelievable.
Gary, there is a hole in the valve body plate that you can drill out to enlarge the hole for more pressure for a firmer shift on the st300.
There's some ST300 tech info on Russ's site: http://nailheadbuick.com/st300-transmission-info Great info Gary!
You're being deceptive Gary because you're using the published numbers from the Powerglide trans NOT from a st300! And I still don't like the ST300 gearing, 1st gear would make a better 2nd gear than a 1st gear. The HP lost numbers in bold, do you happen to have those for the O/D transmissions? I would think that the 4L80E would be similar to a TH400 but not sure what the others might be? I'll try an internet search and if I find those first I'll post them. On the other hand, never mind because too much of your information is unreliable. Derek
Interestingly enough on my quest to find HP loss numbers for the O/D transmissions I found the numbers Gary wrote down and the ST300 was NOT one of them, looks like he changed that to ST300 from powerglide. As we know the only thing the powerglide and ST300 have in common is that they are 2 speed transmissions. Unlike the ST400 and the TH400 which share basically everything except the input shaft and torque converter and the electric solenoid to activate the dual stall speed converter, the ST300 and powerglide share absolute zero components. Sorry Gary, that's what I found. Not sure you knew that the ST300 and powerglide are different or not, but they are VERY different. That's not to say that the parasitic HP loss isn't the same, I just haven't been able to find that info on the ST300. Derek
