Blown Skyhawk at Nations?

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by mltdwn12, May 24, 2004.

  1. blown455

    blown455 Pit crew

    Adam- Is your water temp hot also?? What weight oil are you using and what are your clearances? I don't understand why you would have a high oil temp. What temp is it reading? Anything under 220 is ok if you ask me.

    Al - do pretty much the same thing Rod told Adam to do if you want to build it for the street do this.... Low compression, stock crank, after market steal rods, retard msd box, street blower, low boost 6-8lbs, large radiator, on gas. If you were to take it to the track, should be about a mid to high 10 sec motor.
     
  2. Adam Whitman

    Adam Whitman Guest

    Nope, water temp runs around 160-180. I've run anything from 5-30 to 20-50 Mobil 1 trying advice from others. Clearances are tight, so I prefer the 5-30 and there seems to be no difference in oil temp based on viscosity changes. I've let the oil temp get as high as 270 before shutting it down. Driving 3 miles uphill when it was about 90* .
     
  3. blown455

    blown455 Pit crew

    Adam- your clearances are to tight. You need to cut the crank and put the clearance at 3 thousands. Then run 15-50 or 20-50 which ever gets you better oil pressure.


    Rod
     
  4. blown455

    blown455 Pit crew

    Also- make sure the oil pump is not to tight, and check to see if the bypass is not stuck open.
     
  5. Adam Whitman

    Adam Whitman Guest

    I'll check it out, thanks for the info....
     
  6. Kerry s.

    Kerry s. Is Jesus YOUR Lord?

    Hi Guys,

    Adam....going back and looking at your pan I fail to see a fitting in your pan for a temp gauge.:Do No: Where exactly are you taking your oil temps from/at? To me the sump is the best place because that is the spot right before being pulled into the engine via the pick-up tube. If you take it from somewhere inside the engine while it's making it's way thru the passages under pressure, then you have to remember that the pressure will increase temp in itself just the same as boost increases air inlet temp.

    Here's a pic of where my sending unit's bung is placed on my TA 8qt pan and it's also in the same spot of my Stef's aluminum pan also.

    Hope this adds in helping you pinpoint a possible reason.:TU:
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Adam Whitman

    Adam Whitman Guest

    Kerry,
    My fitting is at the back of the pan sump, I guess the pics just didn't show it. Keep the thoughts coming, any ideas are welcome.
     
  8. blown455

    blown455 Pit crew

    Adam- have you ever checked the gauge?? It could be wrong or bad. You never know, sometimes it ends up being the easiest thing to fix.
     
  9. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    As for as all those guys in Top Fuel. They don't run Roots-type superchargers because its the best, But because that's the rules along with the fuel they run, cu in. , ect.
    They are restricted to run the setup they are running, you are not that is why I possed the question. I am not challeging your smarts, if you haven't tried it, considered it, or don't care thats fine.
    I'm sure your supercharger is good for 3000 HP but its extra load and abuse on the block over a centrifugal. Lets say in theory a block can handle 1600 hp and it takes 400hp to turn a roots and only 200hp to turn a centrifugal to make the same power. THats more power to the tires with the same abuse on the block. It is a proven fact that centrifugal is more efficient than a roots style supercharger but the exact amount of efficiency varies so I'm not trying to be exact. I think you guys got an awsome combination and I'm not challenging that. But since you are on the edge of destoying the stock block and with all the experience you have I thought you might have some thoughts on other avenues to either go faster or get more use/runs out of a maxed-out setup. I mentioned the centrifugal supercharger since you run forced inductioned setup already and I felt it followed suit.
     
  10. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    Guys..

    Adam's oil temp is what is is because of the concrete in the block.. bet on it.

    All that the water in the bottom 3/4 of the cylinders does is cool the oil.. and when it's not there, you have to run an oil cooler in a street application.

    Tim Hol's regal with the Level 2A motor has the block filled about 1/3 of the way, and we run one of those Permacool all in one trans and oil coolers, with a remote filter setup. -8 AN lines.. even pounding on that thing, the oil temp stays below 180*.

    He has a stock timing cover, ported for improved flow, and .0027 on the rods and mains. No problem with oil pressure. We use 15/40 Rottilla T in it, idles hot around 15-20 psi, 65-70 PSI at WOT.

    We fight with oil temps every time I take a filled block to the dyno. We typically have to run a fan blowing on the oil pan, and allow the oil to cool for a while, when making repeated back to back dyno pulls.

    Rod, I would say that that use of Alky in your motor may allow you to get away without the cooler, limited street driving, as it reduces the combustion temp greatly, compared to running on gas. The oil is picking up that temp from the bottoms of the pistons and cylinder walls.





    JW
     
  11. blown455

    blown455 Pit crew

    Ok, I could see the block being filled would play a small part in it. But for it to get that high that fast there has to be something else.

    My car is not your normal street car, but my block is filled to the bottom of the water pump holes. I drive the car to cruz nights that about 12-15 miles away from the house. While getting on it at just about any chance I can. The highest the oil temp has ever gotten is 210*, that is with no oil cooler. I have several friends that have their block 1/2 full and drive it on the street 40-50 miles with no oil cooler and they don't have a problem with the oil temp. This is what would lead me to believe that there is something more to his problem. An oil cooler is worth a shot, but I don't think it is the solution. I could be wrong though.

    Rod
     
  12. BQUICK

    BQUICK Well-Known Member

    My block is filled to the bottom of the water pump ports and the oil does not get excessively hot.....not sure what it is but after driving 30 min back from the track in 85 deg weather the oil was not hot enough to burn my fingers when I checked the oil. Not exactly scientific .......I do have larger capacity alum pan....Stefs.
    My OP does not drop off excessively when hot either. 25 lbs at idle and 75 when revved (10w-30 Castrol GTX plus one 20/50)
    Water runs max 185 in the 85 deg heat.

    Bruce
    9.96 132
    BQUICK
     
  13. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    Restrictors

    Rod-
    Do you run any type of oil restrictors either in the drivers side lifter galley or with the push rods to limit the amount of oil to the top of the motor?
     
  14. blown455

    blown455 Pit crew

    Rick- No I don't use any. By the time it gets to that point it has already fed the mains, so it doesn't matter.

    Rod
     
  15. Adam Whitman

    Adam Whitman Guest

    It is set up fairly tight. 11.25:1 JE Pistons and bearings at .0035(from memory) and .0015 respectively. I set it up tight thinking I could street drive it more than is probably practical in reality (live and learn) The piston domes and comb. chambers have been coated with thermal barrier coating. How that changes everything I have no idea. I have changed the front cover as the shaft to cover clearance seemed a bit loose. I tought that maybe as the oil thinned and the cover expanded the loss of oil flow contributed the heat buildup with a sort of compounding affect. Also, my running pump gas adds heat I am sure, AvGas or race gas would likely help too.

    Hopefully the cover fixed it, if not the water jacketed pan better.
     
  16. benderbrew

    benderbrew Well-Known Member

    For those wanting pictures, just right click your mouse on the pic, save it as a jpg. and your home free.
     
  17. adam r

    adam r Member

    i dont see any problem with your oil temp most synthetics are good to 300 plus degrees. as long as your oil pressure does not suffeer, there is more power with that oil hot and the water cool. from my past experience my 464 was hardblocked and only ran a stock pan and pump and it went over twenty thousand hard miles and hundreds of 1/4 mile passes,tore it apart to find it perfectly good. and by the way that was with conventional motor oil 15 40 . if nothing odd is happening to your engine don't worry about it.
     
  18. leo455

    leo455 LAB MAN

    Didn't he say his oil temp bugn(?) was in the back of the oil pan? Wouldn't it be or could it be the torque converter heat bleeding over.
     
  19. Staged70Lark

    Staged70Lark Well-Known Member

    Hey Rod,

    I don't know how much an oil restrictor in the driver side lifter galley actually helps but it has to help a little. If there is any spot within your oiling system that is using more oil than necessary or bleeding off excessive oil then you must restrict that point. We have always put a pipe plug (with an 1/8 hole drilled in the center) in the front of the drivers side lifter galley. If nothing else it will force more oil down to the mains where it is greatly needed.

    I cant wait to hear when you get that 7.99!!! Also just out of curiosity could you tell me your MPH, rear gear ratio and tire diameter.

    Take Care
     
  20. blown455

    blown455 Pit crew

    John-

    I agree with you on restricting the oil journal. I just have never done that. Never had a problem.

    As for your question I run a 4.30 gear, 32" tires @ 172mph



    Rod
     

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