For anyone who has been following I had removed the engine from my electra to detail and clean it up. I took off the oil pan today and found 2 BIG chunks of metal along with lots of other smaller pieces, proceeded (while wanting to cry) to check all the pistons to find that they are from the piston on very back cylinder on the left side...the skirt blew :ball: So basically i am wondering where I go next. Im guessing remove the head...then, I have no idea. Ive never dealt with the bottom end of an engine so im intimidated. What are any particular things to be careful doing? Im hoping this isnt going to cost a bunch of money...but it probably is.
I posted a similar question based on a 455 I bought with a bad piston. There were mixed opinions. some were "save your money, do it right, get a new set and have a machinist check it" Others posted they've replaced just one and had no problems If you're like me, money isnt in abundance...I planned to replace just the bad pieces. If they are stock pistons, replacements should be easy to find. In my case they were 0.020 over, a rare size, and could only find them new for over $600 a set... Lucky for me I found a complete motor that runs for $400. Look for some used pistons but try new rings. This is a great learning opportunity for you!:laugh:
the old question, where do you stop. My advice, do all you can do, based on your budget. If you have a small budget, then stick a piston in it and run it as long as you can. Budget out all the cost first, you may have enough to do some other things, maybe not. In the good old days when I was broke, I have used sandpaper to hone a cylinder, and put used parts in with new rings, just to have something to drive. Can you just replace the one piston? Sure you can, but not recommended if you can afford to do more.
Pulling the bottom end of the engine is not tough to do. Make sure you mark each main cap with their location, and which side is the front. And mark every rod cap. I usually use a hammer and a pointed punch to mark them 1 dot on the bearing cap, and one mark on the rod itself for the #1 rod etc. You will more than likely have to take the engine to the machine shop, and have them check the cylinder bore taper, and out of round you could do this yourself, but you would have to buy a dial bore indicator. Other than any machine work it won't really be too expensive to rebuild the motor, you should get new bearings (depending on how the ones in it look), and a gasket set.
Ok well I'm not so worried/scared now. So where should I start? Taking off the timing cover heads all that etc? Or do I just have to take off the head and piston for now to see what I'm working with? Detailed steps would be appreciated or things to be careful of when removing cause I have no idea.
It's up to you at this point what you do with it. I would take detailed pictures of the engine coming apart. Pull the timing cover, and take pictures of the timing set. The heads will probably be pretty tough to get off, and they are extremely heavy. And if it were me and my first time doing this I would go ahead and go all the way and rebuilding it. (only if time wasn't an issue) It is a great learning experience, and it takes a long time to make sure everything is right
Honestly, the thing that determines what I want to do with it depends on the price. Does anyone know the price difference between my two options? one being take everything off and completely rebuilding which i assume means all new rings block cleaning etc. the other being replace the rings and piston on the messed up piston and get the cylinder cleaned. Also is there going to be a big difference on how long the engine lasts? Time isnt as much of an issue as money.
You may be getting ahead of yourself. Careful inspection and measurement of the problem area(s) will directly point you toward the initial cost of fixing it. Sometimes the more you inspect the more you find wrong, which adds up, but you end up with fewer surprises in the future. For instance, you can cheap out and replace the piston and its rings, only to spin a bearing the next month. This is why it is so hard to give a low end estimate...without a teardown there is so little to go on that you just can't make any kind of educated guess. Devon
Ok well, ill start with a teardown of just that side and piston then so I can see what I am working with and let you guys know from there. I will remove the head and piston asap
OOOOK,,,, Adrian, you have discovered first hand one of the weaknesses of the nailhead engine ,,, the stock cast pistons will bust up with high milage on them.... now,,, yes you can fix just that piston and ring it and put in a new bearing and it will run fine untill you decide to completely rebuild the engine... what you really need to know is there any others like that in the engine...... and if the pieces flying around in there have damaged any thing else...only one way to tell,,, pull the pan and look at each one from the bottom,,, ck very closely...if there is no other pistons damaged ,,, then pull the head on that side,,, cut the ridge out of that cyl and next move the piston up to the top of the cyl. and then take the rod bolts loose from the rod cap on that piston/rod.... then gently tap on the side of the rod cap to loosen it and remove it from the rod... next slide a piece of 3/8 fuel hose over each rod bolt to keep from damaging the crankshaft... then take a long stick or brass rod and reach down to the bottom side of the piston from the oil pan side and gently tap it out of the cyl... then you can take it to your machine shop to replace the piston on the rod... After it is replaced, you can install the new rings on it or get a mechanic to do it for you... it is easy to break a ring when installing them... best to get the machine shop to do it...,,, then get a ring squeezer and after lubing the rings up good, put a new bearing shell in the the rod and lube it with clean motor oil or clean moly grease and again put the fuel hose over the rod bolts... slide the rod and piston down into the cyl and make sure the fuel hose goes on each side of the crank journal.... naturally all this is clean so it is not damaged by dirt... then gently square the squeezer up and carefully tap the rod/piston assembly into the cyl making sure the rings go in.... if any pop out before starting into the cyl... remove the whole thing and start over.... once the assembly is in and down on the crank throw,,, remove the fuel hose and install the bearing into the cap and lube it... then put it on and gently tap it down,,, install the rod nuts and torque them down.... replace the other stuff and you have really accomplished something.... You can do it,,,, and when you do you will have confidence in your self and in the engine....
The only other thing I'd add to Doc's comments is that a hone should be run through that cylinder for a good crosshatch pattern in order to promote oil adhesion and proper ring break in. New rings may not seat on a very smooth high mileage cylinder wall. Devon
Excellent advice .....I will add my hi mileage NH had a broken piston skirt ....the rest of the pistons looked good when pan pulled to change out the one piston however when I decided to pull complete engine apart 2 other pistons had broken rings ........... so you may want do a compression test on the other cylinders ....also how many miles on thsi engine .......has it been overheated ?? as has been said yes R&R the one piston and you might be OK but chances are good other cylinders are on ther way out if hi mileage motor FWIW
Doc. got everything you were saying except for the "cut the ridge out of that cylinder" part. I am in a bit of a dilemna because i dont really want to have to open it up again to rebuild it because of the other cylinders, but i dont really want to spend a ton of money either. Id say, if I can replace all the pistons and get it completely rebuilt myself for around $5 to 6 hundred i will do it. Otherwise ill just have to stick with just the messed up piston for now.
Technically yes, but looking at it with backyard budget thinking, you could cover the naked crankshaft journal while you hone and then clean that cylinder The pan will have to be off already for all of the above. Devon
At the top of the cylinder will be a small area at which the piston rings do not wear, so the cylinder is at the original machined diameter. On a high mileage engine the rest of the cylinder that's touched by the rings will have worn to a larger diameter. Sometimes theis top ridge is significant enough that you won't be able to push the piston up & out because the rings will hang up at the bottom of the ridge. A hand tool called a "ridge reamer" is used to open up the top of the cylinder's unworn area so that the piston can be easily removed, and the new one installed. Try a google search for "ridge reamer" and see what you come up with. Devon
Well looking at TA's catalog it looks like its about 300 for all the new pistons and 100 for rings. That would all be 4, plus machine shop fees and various gaskets etc. i dont think id be able to do it for 600
You could also look for another good running engine. There are probably more 455's out there than 430's but they will still bolt right in. I bought a great runner complete from carb to pan with all the accessories, pulleys, brackets, everything for $400. Once you have the car back to useable condition, as money and time allows, rebuild your 430 the right way and put it back in. At that point you could probably sell the temporary engine and get your money back for it. Just a thought.
