Hey folks, My 78 Regal currently runs between 11:45 to 11:65 depending on weather here in chilly Clio, Michigan Through 3 1/2 " mufflers. I don't want to ask a redundant question but I could not find the answer as to the ET and\or MPH improvements that might be achieved by switching to the SP1 from my old reliable B4B torquer. My question: Has anyone personally switched or done Dyno tests between the B4B and the SP1? Would the performances improvement be worth the money to make the purchase and then machine the intake to fit it to my decked block? (i.e. $450 to $500) I'm thinking 2 tenths gain would be a nice number to justify the cost. Engine Specs: 462 CI BBB 10.25 : 1 compression TA 290 302 - 520 lift 1.6 ratio rockers Holley 850 carb Ported Iron head - Stg 1 Rear gear - 3:50 Trans -400th Weight 3670lbs w\drvr Shifting @ 5800 RPM Best times: 60ft - 1.47 sec 1/4 mi 11.45 sec Speed 115.85 MPH Slugger alias weekender
I don't have dyno or et improvements but I would do it without a second thought.I did see a thread Yardley has (413) and he got a 30 hp gain.I'm not saying you'll get that much as every combo is different. Jamie
You will lose some low end torque I'm told, but gain in top end power. I noticed my engine seemed to run smoother and start easier. Above 4000-4500 RPM, the SP1 is the winner for sure.
Didn't we try this once?:laugh: I don't see how it would help with your gear ratio. Your 60 fts are so good do not see how you would gain anything by moving the power curve up. I know that you are looking for more in the second half of the track not sure that would help. Looking forward to the new throttle body on your carb with more enthusiasm. I remember that when Car Craft the big block dyno shootout that the Buick won they got more HP with the Sp-1 but the software said it would have better times with the B4B. http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0906_buick_455_engine_bolt_ons/index.html
Hey Slugger. sorry cant rememeber your first name but we talked a few months ago at Milan Dragway. You have a good running car with that combo, I agree with Doug about this issue with the gearing & SP-1. You'll probably have to move your shift points up in order to get maybe a 10th & 1 mph in good weather conditions and you may not see that with the gearing. You may pick up some mph with a gear & converter change, whats your RPM going thru the finish line. Strangly enough my car ran well with a port matched eddy perfomer intake 1in. spacer, 1'58,60 ft.--11:57@115, not a B4B. Now I have my old sp-1 back on but no track times at the end of this year. But street driving it, it seem to pull a little more at 4500 and up to 6000 (rev limiter) with no prob. My gears 3:73 and 950 holley and ATI 3200 real tight stall & tad more cam than yours, I'm going with a TCI 3800 stall next year and now chasing a fuel or spark issue's with the buick, or a head gasket. P.S. hate to see you spend this kind of money and get nothing in return, but on the other hand you can build another motor around the intake in the future. good luck!... jerrold: 3gears:
Do you have an early or late B4B. I did the swap you are talking about several years ago. I knocked a little over a tenth off my ET but it hurt my 60 ft times a little. My car was never set up right and it didn't have the 60 ft times it should have. I can't give you exact numbers it's been too long ago. I was also running a 4.30 rear end gear with 29.5" tall tires. I think the older B4B manifolds were better than the later ones. If you have a later one I would think SP-1 would make a big difference. If you have an early B4B I would consider trading my SP-1 for it as my car is street driven. Bob H.
I made the swith on 550 hp bbb and it felt the same I think I picked up 1 mph tho might not be worth it for you .
my riv picked up 3 tenths with sp1 over a performer , You should not cut your intake I would mill intake side of head but only if you cant fix with thinner gasket.
sailbird was right about the Car Craft article. I wish our Edelbrocks had the efficiency of the one tested on the 440 MOPAR. That is one badass dualplane intake. Check that ET. You'll need to have a very efficient torque converter to make that swap work, but it appears you have one. Your numbers look very good already. A 1.47 60ft is in line with a 10.60 ET at 125 MPH. See page 3 of attatchment... http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=212126 Either you have a very efficient drivetrain like the class racers, or you're falling off on the top end. Hopefully, you have a super efficient converter and hellaccious traction. I would like to know about your converter and suspension setup.
Larry did some very neat things with his suspension last year. Built his own control arms and sway bar. Obviously did a great job. He is really sharp on his backyard engineering.
Guys, check out these links. I think you will find the answers to the HP/torque gains/losses with respect to the B4B vs. SP1 intake. http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0906_buick_455_engine_bolt_ons/photo_01.html http://carcraft.automotive.com/112326/ccrp-0907-buick-455-cylinder-heads/index.html
Hi Folks I just got back to digest the information each of you have offered and I will try to answer the few questions asked of me. .Top end RPMS is above 5300, 5400 @ 115.85 mph .This is a 1973 Edlebrock B4B .Rear tires are MT 28' X 10.5 ET Street .Also use on occassion MT 27" X 275 Drag radials .Converter is an orginal Art Carr 3000rpm Stall (A great converter) efficiency is 99.01 % according to the formula I read in one of your Posts . . 60 ft times plummeted from 1.65ET to the 1.47ET due to the install of the Antisway bar I built and installed and loosening front shocks to the softest setting of the 3 available (not race 90/10). WOW what a difference. I will post pictures on Monday. addition to the intake issue: I had an old Offy single plane intake on the shelf so I cleaned it up and laid it on the heads. Low and behold, it port matched even with .000 deck and .16 off the heads. So I bolted it on and ran it at a sloppy hole track here in Michigan. I think there is hope here. The car went 1.54 ET 60ft\ 11.54 1/4 Mile @ 115.85 MPH and this thing was sucking oil on the left bank. This is the same ET's and MPH I ran the previous week at this track with the B4B and no smoke screen. When I get the air leak fixed I might have found a tenth or two. Later Slugger
Slugger, just a piece of advice on the Offy. Over the years way back I had both the single 4 bbl and the dual quad intake. Both of them refused to seat correctly when I first tried them and had vacuum leaks. I ended up drilling the locating pin holes out on each end and that did the trick as far as vacuum. Is the one you called a single plane a 360 model? If so it really isn't a single plane. Just some idea that Offy came up with that splits the intake into a left and right half. With your performance and launch factor it may be worth something. When I ran it on a slower car you could feel the low end go away and only at the top of the gear did it finally feel as good as a B4B. I always felt it may work on a car that could use a single plane higher rpm intake. I also tried the SP1 in the early days and even with the intake flow matched I only picked up 1 MPH and a few hundredths on a low 12 car. The newer models are supposed to be better though. Keep us updated on how it works.
There is enough value in your B4B to sell it to offset the cost of the SP1 quite a bit. The SP1 may not show a huge gain w/ your current combo but as you go forward you will not need another intake. Sounds like a very good running car,My buddy has a 72 Skylark with a very similar set up which runs the same at about 100lbs heavier.He runs an SP1 though.
Might consider opening the headers up and see what happens (assuming you are running them). Pretty easy to do and can make quite a bit of difference. Peace, Mike D.
I have run a B4B, a K-B Wildcat Cool Runner, and a Offy 2 X 4 as well as a sock intake. The best thing I can say about the B4B is it takes a lot of weight off the front of the car. I really liked the K-B with the Dominator flange and a 1050. It was fast and left hard. Trouble is I can't use it now because of class rules, so I use the Offy 2 X 4. Jim N.
HI folks Hey, NO LIFT you are right it is the 360 and it did have the location holes screwed up which I caught before installing. I think this thing had been milled in its previous life and the set angle is off just a touch. As I mentioned yesterday I thought I would update those of you who were interested how I broke the 1.50 ET in 60 ft barrier. The whole process started with locating the Instant Center on the old IRON REGAL for my 4 link suspension, it was in line with the back seat when I started. It is now toward the front of the doors. This website has a calculator and all the data you need to set up a race car suspension. http//www.racetec.cc/shope/tim.12.htm. Then I figure the changes and adjustments needed to get the anti-squat as close to 100% as possible currently at 106%. The attached photos indicate some of the changes and improvement needed to get the 60 ft times where they are: . I built adjustable C-moly upper control arms with stainless Heim joints . Boxed the lower control arms using poly bushings . Built the Anti sway bar out of my extra C-moly with Nylon Spherical bearings in the corners . Used factory style after market rear springs . Strange single adjustable shocks . Built and welded all the needed reinforcements to the 4 link mounting plate to keep from bending or removing the plate on launch. . Purchased a 3 1/2"X .128 thich aluminum driveshaft with solid forged u- jointed . No I do not use the air bag in the photos, I was to lazy to suck the air out of it and remove it from the spring. . The Lincoln rearend has a nodular iron pig with 33 sline axles and a full spool As of this writing this thing is bullet proof even when I launch the T400 tranny on the trans brake at over 4000 RPM. I built this thing to launch and a nitrous or turbo charged motor in the 750 to 800 HP range and not break. we will see what the future holds for that plan. The Launch pix of the old Iron Regal was before the sway bar I don't have the after photo processed yet I can send it later if anyone would like to see a comparison. Later Slugger
Looks like you did a lot of nice work. When building my 67, since I had back half frame rails I was able to move the anti-roll bar farther to the front and make it longer with the attachment points near the backing plates. I think this made it leave a little flatter. Actually the car has no body rool to the right at all and picks up both wheel the same amount. I have a 83 Regal with a 9" under it with narrowed stock frame and know what you were facing to get it wider, but I think that works better. What do I know, just an old tired man still trying. Jim
Another option is spending your money getting the B4B ported and equalized. (Had more of a stock look that's why I like it.......) I had one done years ago and it ran right with my Wildcat intake shifting at 6000. But.....shifting at 6400 and going thru the traps at 6700 the Wildcat had 1 more mph and .05 better ET.
