Anyone drop in a 502 crate motor in a 70-72 skylark

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by Andrew Skidmore, Nov 11, 2004.

  1. Andrew Skidmore

    Andrew Skidmore Wannabe Trailer Queen

    Well I dont know how it is in Kansas but here in Portland, Oregon I walked my happy but into the local GM dealership and the 502 crate motor complete without a carb was going for just over $5,000, and the fuel injected motor was just over $7,000. So I guess you dont have to work for GM to get a good price. Or at least this was my experience.
     
  2. 12lives

    12lives Gravity is matter warping space-time - Einstein

    I'll drop my 2 cents too - BBB do not need 4 bolt mains like the chevy block...they did that because the basic design called for it. Its not a sign that its a better engine, its more like a bandaid. Yeah, Buicks need girdles, just like the chevy, when going for big horsepower. But by the time you get that 502 to work, you could have had a BBB with the same timeslip for the same money.
    - Bill
     
  3. Andrew Skidmore

    Andrew Skidmore Wannabe Trailer Queen

    Those are exactly the type of responses I was looking for, someone that is able to set aside their own personnal misconceptions of another model motor and just give you their most honest belief and ideas on what you should do, Thank you for your help.
     
  4. btc

    btc Tron Funkin Blow

    OK, I know you've had enough anti-chevy posts and I'm not going to try to change your mind one way or the other, but here's something to consider:

    Yes, you do have a Buick car, but the whole point of the Engine Tech Forums is to help people with Buick Engine questions. If you were putting a Buick engine in a Chevelle would it make much sense to ask Chevy guys about it ?

    Since the Skylark and Chevelle share the same basic chasis, I'm pretty sure putting in the Chevy motor would just be a matter of using all of the engine-related parts for a Chevelle (motor mounts, chevy transmission, acccesories, manifolds/headers). But again, since these forums, (and this site in general) are more geared towards Buick-powered vehicles (whether they're Buick-bodied or not), you might have better luck asking this on a Chevelle forum. Plus, if you have a question specifically about the engine, it would make the most sense to ask the Chevy experts.
     
  5. buickdav

    buickdav Kris' other half.

    Just another opinion here. I prefer Buicks myself, but what I don't understand is the whole purist fanatic thing that is usually involved in discussions like this. If the car is cool or fast, I don't really care whats in it. You have a Buick, ok, your looking at all your options, ok. Personally I would put a Buick back in it if I could. But if your looking at a Chevy, fine. For those that find this so God awful bad consider this........"if I have a heart transplant does that make me a different person?"(Thanks JG) I don't think so, but thats just me. Its YOUR car, do with it what YOU want to do. If someone doesn't like it then oh well...........

    Later....................

    OH yea, using Garrisons theory on weight, DON'T buy a BBC. I just saw a 434" sbc that makes 700 hp for like 8K. That was new and broke in. If your looking for a drop in, check out some National Dragster ads........
     
  6. Andrew Skidmore

    Andrew Skidmore Wannabe Trailer Queen

    The question to me was if I had a chevelle would I post a question on a chevelle sight asking about putting a buick motor in it. I take it like this, since I have a buick and just maybe someone out there has put in a 502 crate motor in a skylark, and assuming its possible why not ask the question since this question would be towards someone who has already made any mods necessary to do the transplant. And on top of that I am sure my question regards only those who have done this transplant, so that must mean that they own a Buick, which in return means this would be a great place to ask a question, since someone actually responded to me saying they know someone who has done this to their buick. So this was a great place to start a thread since I got the answer I wanted. So bottom line is even if you are a die hard buick fan like myself, if you dont like what someone else is doing you can assurely let it be known, but know when to act like and adult, and that is my problem. The last thing I am going to do is buy parts from someone and have that person turn around and respond to my thread like I am and outcast, and start talking about "CHITVYS" and try to make me feel stupid for asking it. This is where I draw the line, if you come on this site and want to sell parts, then treat people with respect and have some dignity, or ultimately in the end you will lose a customer, and you have just lost my buisness no matter what part you reproduce or sell, AND I THINK ANYONE WHO READS THIS THREAD FROM START TO FINISH WILL KNOW WHO I AM REFERING TO.
     
  7. Truzi

    Truzi Perpetual Student

    What about a large Caddy engine? Though I imagine parts may be more expensive and more difficult to find than Chevy.

    But if you're just looking to drop in powerful engine...
     
  8. derek244

    derek244 Back again.

    Andrew, I agree with you 100%. I am not proud of this board when I see insulting responses like that. Anyone can buy a Buick, but a Buick owner should always be respectful. Lets face it, they are all internal cumbustion engines, designed by people NOT on this board.

    I have had great conversations with Mopar, Chevy, and Ford guys that have an open mind, and a mutual respect for nice cars. After a ride in some of their cars, there was always the same reaction. A big smile on my face.

    A guy around here has a super clean 69 Nova with a 502, and it sounds and looks incredible. If I were you, I would look at building a 455 if you can. It always nice to see a mean Buick. Good luck with the project. :beer
     
  9. MR.BUICK

    MR.BUICK Guest

    Be careful what you say, there is buick motors that have less cubes and more hp than chevys 572. And what was it about the 573 buick engine? If i heard right, it had around 300 more horses than the 572.
     
  10. MR.BUICK

    MR.BUICK Guest

    Oh, and now 502 horsepower isnt hard to get, a few buick 350's have more horsepower than that, good for a sb. Good luck on your decision, make it a wise one... :TU:
     
  11. Marv Marksberry

    Marv Marksberry Well-Known Member

    I put a 455 Buick in my Suburban and everyone thought that it was a neat ideal. I have also seen Cad. motors in them as well.

    It's your car, build it the way you want. The frames have the same bolt pattern drilled in them for Chevy, Buick or Olds motor mounts. I gave a friend a frame from under my old black primer GS when I parted it out and he put it under his '70 SS with no trouble at all. If you get tired of the 502, you can always change it back. Just build the car safe and be smart about how you drive it.

    In addition to the Apollo, I also have a '64 Plymouth with a 440 / 4 speed in my shop along with a '71 GS 455 and a '26 Ford Model T Speedster (first hot rod). I like them all.

    And Perry, I didn't know you had a "Z-Car". I use to have a '69 SS RS Camaro (396).

    Marv.
     
  12. Andrew Skidmore

    Andrew Skidmore Wannabe Trailer Queen

    I can honestly say I do understand almost all of the responses that I have recieved concerning this thread. I get some you agree with me and those who dont not just regarding the motor swap, but how one should be treated on this forum. I say if somone does not like the place that I put my thread in then when it gets started up someone just say hey man put that thread here, that is where it belongs and you will get better responses there. That would be great, and I still see how people are on this high horse about asking this question on a chevy sight, I say well I own a buick and so does everyone else on this sight, so since it is a possible motor swap and maybe someone has done it already, which proved to be right, then how is it the wrong place to put a thread, and if it insults anyones loyalty to a buick, then I would question the loyalty of the person being insulted about my question because I guarentee you I wont be the first to ask it and I wont be the last to do the swap if I so choose to do.
    Now keep in mind throughout all of this that I just wanted a response to if someone has done it or can give me some ideas, After getting some responses I would then decide what motor to go with. That is all in a nutshell, anything after that is taboo when someone comes at you like they are superior, and that their answer is gospel, well if no one has informed you yet you are not indistructable by any means, and this means your buisness will suffer sooner or later when you treat people like this, especially coming from someone who has already done buisness with them, and as I said before if you look back and read through the threads you will see who I am talking about. It is so funny to me that the man who pushed me around with words has not come back and made a stand trying to defend what he has said, HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM that makes me wonder if he is backpedeling with his statements now.
     
  13. MGSCP

    MGSCP Guest

  14. alan

    alan High-tech Dinosaur

    I don't know how many times I've seen a Buick that caught my eye enough to take a closer look, and then was disappointed to find a Chevy motor in it. Most non-Buick people don't realize the potential of a 455 and are too eager to rip that "boat anchor" out and put in something that will run. This attitude was prevalent back in the '70s and '80s in the car magazines, and not just about Buicks. Any non-Chevy GM engine got tossed in favor of a Chevy.

    I don't mind a Chevy in a Buick if it's not going to stay there and even suggested to my friend that we put his blown 427 in my green car just for the heck of it. Simply for grins (and a few passes at the track) it would come back out, but we never did it. I also suggested putting it in a '73 Estate wagon just to watch peoples freak-out meter peg! Most non-car people couldn't tell the difference between engines anyway.

    Most swaps like this come across as a cop out, either someone taking the easy way out or having the misconception that the Buick engine isn't worth the trouble.

    The bottom line is, it's your car and you can do what you like with it, just don't expect everyone to like it, or to even understand the reason. For the die hard Buick folks whose blood is Buick red, it's a hard pill to swallow.
     
  15. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP


    Throttle back there Ace... your last few posts have had noting to do with pro's and Con's of the swap, your too busy trying to pick a fight. So go easy on the scolding of other users.

    Now, as to the question.. here is what you need to do..

    Figure out how much it's going to cost you, to build from th existing core you have, VS buying the crate 502. Don't forget it requires a Chev bellhousing trans, Chev Frame mounts, brackets, pulleys, fan shroud, and that kind of stuff.

    I can tell you, that if you an build the thing yourself, and work with a competent machine shop, it's not that difficult to build a low 12 second GS with the 455 you already have. Do yourself a spreadsheet, figure out what it costs to build each combo, and then go with what you want to do. It's not going to matter to me, or prolly a whole lot of other guys on this board.

    You do need to go over to the chevy sites, and educate yourself on the pros and cons of the 502 crate motor, doubtful that too many folks here have any experience with them.

    The only experience I have with a BBC, is the one in the Suburban we use to tow with.. it was tired at 120K miles, so we pulled it out, built it up with a complete re-do of the bottom end, Merlin heads, and Port fuel injection.

    Was a big mistake, for the money we spend on it we would have been a lot better off doing a 455 swap, as the 455 is a much better towing motor, due to it low speed torque.

    And every time I pull one of my motors off the dyno, Ron, my dyno operator who has seen hundreds of BBC's, always marvels at the output of the Buick motor, and always says that the power it put out, would not be possible with a BBC of the same specs.

    I assume your talking about the ZZ502 motor..

    this one:


    http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/350...sembled-GM-Performance-Parts-Crate-Engine.htm

    ZZ502 Complete Kit - Fully Assembled GM Performance Parts Crate Engine




    Click here for more details and a quick freight quote!


    Price: $7,450.00

    Part # 12496962
    Brand: GM Performance Parts
    QTY:


    Makes 502 HP and 567 Torque.

    I would say that if you could build it yourself, keep the fancy extra's to a minimum, then you could build as much or more HP with the core you have, with TA aluminum STG 1 heads, and a good forged piston short block, for about that much money, or maybe just a touch more.

    So I see no great advantage money wise to this swap, especially considering you have to change your trans, locate and buy all the brackets and pulleys, ect..

    JW
     
  16. buick535

    buick535 Well-Known Member




    Andrew, Sorry you got bashed for asking the question about putting a chevy into a Buick.
    It would be a very easy swap, chevelle frame pads and mounts would be needed, they should bolt right in, to my knowledge , the frames were the same for all the A body cars back then. You would want to find brackets and mounts for a 68 to 72 chevelle.
    You would either have to swap the tranny to a chevy style bell housing, or use adapter palte, which is available for around $55 to $60.
    While I would rather not see you put a chevy in a Buick, I have over the years put Buicks into all kinds of other cars, such as chevies, fords, dodges and even datsuns.
    I beleive you deserve an honest answer to your question.
    Jim Burek P.A.E ENTERPRISES www.paeenterprises.com
     
  17. GS Kubisch

    GS Kubisch THE "CUT-UP" BUICK

    What he said.......
     
  18. 9secStage1

    9secStage1 Worlds Fastest GS Stage 1

    I have been watching this thread and though my first love is for Buicks I always respected and admired other makes...U.S. makes not rice burning imports.

    A few question to you is: What do you want in your car? You said a fast street car in your earlier post. Well what is "your" definition of a fast street car. 9-10-11-12 seconds?

    So ask yourself and be honest because your answers will determind how fast you will go.

    1. Do I need this car to drive everyday to work, school etc.
    2. Is this my only mode of transportation or do I have another car (beater)
    3. How many miles do I plan on driving it on the street each year?
    4. How many times do I plan on racing at the track?
    5. Do I own a trailer and tow vehicle or do I plan on driving to the track.
    6. My budget$$$ this effects all questions.
    7. Do I do all, some or none of the mechanical work on my car.
    8. Is this car garaged all year round.
    9. Be aware of rising fuel costs if you plan on driving your car everyday.

    If you are like most you may have another set of wheels and your car is a weekend cruiser. In that case you can build and easy low 11 second Buick powered car. But how far is your track? 4.56 gears would run havoc in your wallet on fuel let alone wear on your drivetrain.

    So some planning has to be built into this. First let me tell ya I've been there. And I grew up in a world of Chevy and Mopar friends. Been driving my same GS since 1978 everyday to work and college and still crusied the local car lots. Progressed with the same car going faster and faster until it was unrealistic to have a low 10 second car that I drove maybe 500 miles each year on the street yet had to pay the high cost of insurance, so off the road she went in 1988 and then I stepped up to go even faster to this date, still owning and racing the same GS.

    If you need the car for work and/or school. Leave the Buick engine in and spend less $$ to make it a low compression high 11 second street car with a set of 3.73 gears. Go out buy a small nitrous kit for that added insurance and fun factor. That low rpm high torque 455 will suprise many Chevy owners on the street. I ran this combination for about 5-6 years while using my GS to commute to college and to work. As long as the revs are kept down they can take a load of abuse. A long time ago a good friend of mine told me, "Keep it simple stupid". The K.I.S.S. rule. That friend is Greg Gessler, who had just recently ran a 11.08 in full 100% street trim and stock appearing in his 1972 Stage 1.

    If you have have a beater car to use instead of your main car and a trailer, well you can step up higher by gearing up a bit. I have to tell you back in 1987 my street legal GS was running 11.40's and 10.50's with the squeeze with 4.10! It ran like a raped ape and never let me down on the street and at the track I was in the thick of the pack. Still my budget was low.

    If you want to go balls to the walls with a street legal car let's say in the very low 10's and lower and make frequent trips to the tracks. Well then I would have to admit go Chevy, sorry guys it's just more durable and can be cheaper. Me...I wouldn't because my love is for Buicks and even though it now may cost me more I don't care because I can swing it and that's my choice. Plus it's the suprise factor that makes it all worth it.

    Another point: The best feeling in the world is returning back to the pits and a small group of people come up and ask: What's in it? and after you reply,
    "A Buick big block". They suddenly become more interested. Then one may make the remark, "Are you spraying it?" And the answer I love is, "No, it's pure Buick powered with a single 4bbl". Answers I have heard range from, Wow!, Holy sh*t, I never knew Buicks can run that good" or they just mumble and walk away scratching their heads. I tell ya hearing that is almost better than sex, and being 46 years old and married for 15 years , it probably is :laugh:

    Bottom line do what JW said, sit down and crunch the figures and goals on paper. And be realistic with yourself. If you decide to stick with Buick power, you will always find helping hands here. If you go with the Chevy power, well it's natural your going to get friction on a Buick site. The knowledge here will be limited on the Chevy build up. It's like a hunter going on a green peace site asking about what deers have the largest antlers so I know which to hunt for.

    The choice is yours.......BUICK I hope. :3gears:
     
  19. RACEBUICKS

    RACEBUICKS Midwest Buick Mafia


    Give it a rest you know the moment you posted about putting a chev in a buick the crap would be all over it. I havent been here to "defend nothing I just had more important things todo. What I said I say to everyone so dont think you are getting special attention. You can do what you want and I dont really care. Just know that Car Craft just recently had what was hot and what was not. I quote " Chevy powered Buicks OLds and Pontiac .... Not Hot" Welcome to the club.......................................... :TU:
     
  20. Andrew Skidmore

    Andrew Skidmore Wannabe Trailer Queen

    To start off this is my last message concerning this thread. The only reason I am posting another statement is because I finally got MR. Garrison to respond back to me. What a great deal, so anyhow I appreciate your futher input on the subject, and no I have not sat down and takin a look at the latest "Car Craft", but I do know that I could care less what some minimum wage journalist tells people what is hot and whats not concerning muscle cars, but I do listen to those that are on this site for first hand information on my questions, but what I have takin from this is that I really have found out that a 45 year old can still find time to act like a child, what a concept.
     

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