I've got to do a little construction project at my new building and I'm looking for a little advice on how to go about it. Here's what I want to acomplish; I've got an area between the office and the bathroom that spans 17 ft. 8 in. across that I want into build some overhead storage. Both the office and the john are "roofed" at about the same height. My thinking is to connect them with an upper deck to hold some shelving units. The office is 10 &1/2 ft. wide but the john is only 7 ft. wide so I geuss that I'd like the deck to be the same 7 ft. width as the bathroom wall. Since I've got a really high ceiling in the main shop area, I want the thing to be strong enough to climb up and stand on as well as hold all the junk that I plan on putting on the shelves. I would like it to be free-spanning without any floor poles or supports coming down to the ground in the middle. Can you understand what I'm talking about? I've attached a photo showing the area that I'm planning on building this in.
Also, I'm thinking of doing the same thing across the back wall. This time the span is only 16 & 1/2 ft. and the width only has to be 6 ft. 11 in. Here's another picture;
Robert without knowing the codes in CA. I will tell you that you will have to put a "beam" in the middle of the area and post to the ground . Using 2x 10 would be a mininum but I like to go stronger in all we do when we build . I would use 2x12 for the complete structure . Set the beam in the middle of the space and overlap the joist 2' over the supporting post . Securing the outer box to the walls . Hope this helps some . The area is way to large not to put in a beam and post to the ground . Any questions Email me I will try to help you . Good Luck :TU: :TU:
Bruce, I'm more concerned with the thing falling down than I am with building codes. :laugh: How about carrying the supports up to the main roof instead of dropping them down to the floor? o No: Thanks! :TU:
What codes........ Well .. I would build it the way I said . We've done alot of them over the years . Build it 16 on center the way I said and secure to the walls, post and beam to the ground . I would not go off the roof . :gt: :TU:
Look into those new wood floor joices that they use in building the modern houses now. Or you could take 2x12's and sandwich 5/8or3/4 ply between them.Glue and screw the sandwich together.Cut to fit.
Being a carpenter and a firefighter and having just read a 650 page book about building constructin, here's my .02. You are over the max length for a 2x10, which is 16'. You would have to go 2x12. Your best way would be to get an I-beam, an 8" would do, 16.5' long, and support it on both ends with a steel post. You would then have to use a Hilte gun and put a 2-8 on the side of the web of the beam facing the wall. You could then attach 2x8's to that going towrads the wall. You would have to bolt a header board 2x8, onto the wall. You could then cover this with 3/4" tongue and groove plywood. Please do not epoxy bolts into the walls. If there ever was a fire, those would be the first to let go. Lead shields aren't much better. A through the wall bolt is best. I'm not sure if you plan on using a step ladder to get up there or erecting a permanent set of stairs. You can go to any library and get a code book that should have your state's applicable building codes. Be especially aware that you are in a commercial structure and subject to stricter codes. None of the above is fireproof as it is all unprotected steel and wood. Do not support anything from the ceiling. Especially if you have metal bar joists. They were designed to support the weight of the roof, nothing else. Good luck. Phil
Robert, I would definatly use the "silent floor system" (the wooden I-beams) instead of 2X10's or 2X12's. They are stronger, lighter, and will span farther. I wouldn't attach the structure to the trusses alone since they were not engineered for the extra load it would place on them. The last thing you want is the roof coming down on you. I also wouldn't place all the load on the existing walls (office and bathroom). That could very well do those in too. If your going ot placing substancal weight up there, I'd atleas add some support beams on the outside of both the walls and allow them to take the weight and not the bath or office. That way you could still leave it open in the center.......... I would then use the tounge and grove "Floor Board" on top of the I-beams. You will want to Glue it down using (liquid Nails) as well as securing it with screws about every 8 inches per run........... just my .02
Thanks guys for your input. :TU: I just went and took a close look at my lease agreement. It states that I'm not supposed to alter any of the existing structure or fasten anything to the walls without prior written aproval. It looks like I'm gonna have to ask the management exactly what I can or can't do before I actually build anything. Here's a sketch of an idea that my brother came up with that looks like it might work. What do you think? o No:
Using 2x10's 12" OC would be acceptable. That looks like a good plan there. Cross bracing of the legs will insure better stability in addition to that achieved from being right next to the other three walls. You can recess a 2x6 into the posts in an X at either end.
Phillip, The X-braces sound like a good addition to my brother's idea. :TU: Doing it this way may enable it to be considered something other than a permanent structure. :Brow: Since you mentioned that you're also a firefighter, you'd be the guy to ask this; Do you think that I'll need to add to my fire sprinkler system another run underneath this loft? o No:
2x10 or 2x12 how about using manmade engineered laminated wooden beams . much stronger that 2x10 , 2x12
Lam-Wood beams? Gerry, I was thinking maybe looking into using those things too. How pricey are those things? o No: Since the place is just a rental, I'm trying to do this on the cheap. :TU:
Robert just curious, are you building this yourself? Or are you going to hire a contractor to perform the work?
Jeff, I wasn't planning on doing it all myself, but I'm sure that I could get some help from my brothers and/or freinds for some lunch and a cooler of beers. :beer :beer :beer :beer (When the job was done, of course. :TU: ) It may wind up that I'll have to call in a contractor, but only if the property management makes me. :Brow:
"silent floor system" Be very careful with these! They are only stronger if correctly engineered in YOUR particular application. If you are going to store alot of weight on this structure, I'd advise against them:Smarty: Use dimentional lumber instead! They are a very cool material to work with, at times. They are very versatile, you can cut large holes in their webbing if needed, without any structural weakening (ONLY in certain areas!!). I've SEEN some bad things in houses and commercial buildings over the last ten years or so, when these were used improperly. BUT, IF PROPERLY ENGINEERED AND INSTALLED, AND THE CORRECT SERIES AND SIZE JOIST IS USED FOR YOUR APPLICATION, you should be OK with them. I have seen them used with great success many, many times! Just know what you are getting into... http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff1970.htm I wouldn't be suprised to hear the property management requires any modifications to the structure to be performed by a licensed and bonded contractor. Permits, ect. Legal stuff, you know. And no, these joists aren't cheap! Especially the higher load-bearing series. Stick with what your brother drew up, that looked real good!
Jeff, Thanks for that link.:TU: After reading that and considering my budget I doubt that I'll go the glue-lam-beam route. As far as the management's requirements go and according to my lease, as long as it's not a permanent attachment to the existing structure then it should be OK and won't need permits or contractors. I will contact them next week just to be sure. The plan that my brother proposed is based on something he had constructed once for a sound stage with similar requirements; it too couldn't be attached to the building and it needed to be knocked down and removed when they were done. He said that it was sturdy enough that four or five people, the whole camera rig, and the sound gear were all up on it. I'm not planning on putting nearly that much weight on the one we'll build for me. :TU:
Hi, Wood I-beams are a firefighter's nightmare. They will burn through and collapse in as little as 6 minutes. Adding two sprinkler heads underneath would be great protection for the storage area. You could also put some 1/2" drywall on the underside to create a firestop. Just make sure to mud the joints and nails as they are part of the "system" that will slow down the fire.
