Guys I'm really stumped here. Swapping out my 350 4 speed for a 455 with a 4 speed. I have the trans in, bellhousing in, everything looks good. But the lower adjustment rod is out of threads for adjustment. I am using a brand new Dave Kleiner setup. I have the upper rod, Z bar, and lower rod, all from Dave. I've searched all the old posts from Rob (BLT4SPD), Reg, and Greg Davis, and tried to figure this one out. Here's what I know: 1. The throwout bearing is not installed backwards. 2.The pedal doesn't reach the rubber bumper with the lower rod all the way adjusted out. 3. When the pedal hits the floor, It doesn't look like the throwout bearing is engaging the pressure plate all the way. 4. The parts from Dave I have are the same as the ones others have used and made work. (I don't think it's the repro parts) 5. The 350 setup was really a leg press. But worked unbelievably well with half a rod left for adjustment. 6. Inside the bellhousing around the pivot ball, it's welded really poorly. The allen screw doesn't move from outside the bellhousing. (I think because it's welded in place) 7. I'm thinking of cutting the Kleiner lower rod and welding a threaded rod to it to make it longer for more adjustment. I know everyone's at Bowling Green right now but hopefully someone can help!!!
Paul, I'm not near my car so I can't check but is there more than one hole in the pedal assy for the rod that goes through the firewall? What bell housing are you using? Adjustable pivot ball? I also remember getting the wrong bearing one time (it was to short) I think I have a long one in my car now o No:
Rick I don't think I can do an adjustable pivot ball because the other one is welded in inside the belhousing. I'm using the stock one that orig. came with the car. And I only see one hole for the rod in the pedal. Jason I think the throwot bearings from the old setup and the new one look the same. Is there more "meat" on the 455?
There are 2 types of lower adjusting rods: The factory version is a block with the threaded adjuster. There is an improved version that looks like a 90 degree tube with an adjusting rod which gives about an inch and a half more adjustment. Ames Performance Engineering in New Hampshire sells both. The upper rod may be too short as well. The 350 rod is shorter than the 455 rod.
Paul, What kind of clutch are you using? Diaphram, Borg & Beck? I ask because I know that a Borg & Beck needs extra adjustment room on that lower threaded rod.
You never mentioned about the clutch fork? Which one are you using? I have Kleiner's setup and everything looks to line up good. I have to install it, but previously I used Lakewood's fork and it screwed the alignment all up. The Lakewood deal was too short and I though it would work as it was a universal GM. Otherwise it was made for a Chevy, not a Buick. Another thing is if your bellhousing is boogered up in anyways, replace it. Any changes in the geometry of the linkage will make it never work correctly. Also, I think there should only be around 1/4" of play for the clutchfork movement when it's installed in the bellhousing with the tranny connected.
I use a Center Force II diaphragm set up (P/P, disc, T/O bearing). It is the 11" unit. Lakewood sells an adjustable pivot ball. Summit sells them. Did you check your air gap? Take the inspection cover off, and have someone press the pedal to the floor. Take a .030" feeler gauge and slide it between the clutch disc and the flywheel. It should go in.
I'm using the Delco kit. (Wanted the stock feel) Part# 381253? Everything came together, Pressure plate, bearing, alignment tool, and clutch disc. I went to the store yesterday and the throwout bearing listed mic'ed up the same as the one in the car. I don't think I installed the clutch disc backwards and if I did, I don't see how it would affect the linkage adjustment. I am using the complete Kleiner setup, Upper Rod, Z bar, lower rod, and fork. Does anyone think I should cut the lower adjusting rod and weld a longer threaded rod to it??? Because I'm about to. And with this being still straight, I can't see how it would mess up the geometry. Thanks for helping guys. We'll get it :TU:
I think the problem is on either end. Are those the original clutch pedals in your car? Somehow, with using the Kleiner setup the upper clutch rod isn't in the correct position, or the clutchfork isn't. I know the chevelle clutch pedals are different than the buicks, or maybe the mount that the upper clutch rod is attached to is out of alignment (or bent). Either that, or the clutchfork is not correctly installed. Another thing that might be is the Z-bar bracket that's mounted to the frame. There's a possibility it might not be installed at the right place to where the geometry is out. These are all speculations as there aren't no pictures to see how everything is setup. Is there anyway you can get access to a digital camera to get pics? If you got one it'll make things alot easier to help figure your problem out.
Rob Here's the thoery I am going with- First off let me say the car has always been a stick. A 350, but a stick all the same. I think at some point the pivot ball broke inside the bellhousing and was welded back in place. Now, if it was shortened at all when it was fixed, then it would be further towards the back of the car. Which in turn would keep the fork further back, taking the 3/4" of adjustment I need. What I plan on doing is cutting the adj. rod and welding a loger rod to it to get the throwout bearing where it needs to be. Oh by the way- Since my last post I took it all apart and figured out I put the clutch in backwards. Guess the clutch fiasco here helped out a little bit!!! :laugh:
Paul, sorry I didnt notice your post while I was away. The ideas about the throwout bearing was a good one except it is the 350 bearing that is taller. So that isnt it. What did you measure the throw out bearing height at? there is a big difference in the bend of the forks that are sold as replacements compaired to a Kliener one. There used to be a pic on the board compairng them. But you said you have Klieners fork so that can be it. It seems the ball stud is the questionable area. The only one who needed a adjustable ball stud was BuickGSman, and he didint use the Kliener fork. measuring on the inside how far from the bellhousing surface is the top of the ball stud? I have 2 bellhousing that I will measure tomorrow Friday evening to compare?
Clutch Issue I had a some what similar problem with my setup. My problem revolved around the Lakewood bell housing that I used in place of the stock aluminium unit. I found that the clutch fork( both original and Kleiner repo) hit the rear of the fork "window" in the side of the bellhousing. I remedied the problem by adjusting the height of the pivot ball. It needed to be taller in the housing. I do have one issue that one of my fellow gear jammers could address...is the input shaft of the trans supposed to seat fully into the pilot bushing? The 1970 Chassis Service Manual has a diagram that depicts the input shaft seating fully into the pilot bushing in the rear of the crankshaft. I pulled my trans out and my roller pilot bushing was destroyed and the input shaft had a small groove @ 1/2 way down the shaft indicating that the shaft was not fully engaged into the pilot bushing. I put a new bushing in (bronze) and installed the bellhousing without the clutch, then installed the trans to see where it sits at. It was only going in about 1/2 way. I measured both the Lakewood unit and the stock aluminium unit and both are dimensionally the same. Has anyone ever checked this out? I basically assumed that the pilot was fully engaged...but now I see it is different. What I thought was going to be a simple( if you want to call it that!!) clutch change, has turned into a engine removal/brake line change/engine detailing/oil leak fix PITA, that seems to get deeper with every turn of the wrench.This is really delaying my :3gears: habit! Can anyone help shed some light on this? Sorry for hijacking the thread. Thanks for the help.
Well, here's where I am with this. The pivot ball is welded to the bellhousing, indicating it broke sometime earlier in it's life. But when I pulled the tranny, bellhousing, and pressure plate assy. to check it, the bronze pilot bushing fell out in a million pieces. So I had to machine down a new one (the crank was too tight) and I put the beveled end of the bushing flush with the lip on the crank. I bent out the clutch disc per instructions in the service manual and put it all back together. The car shifts now but the pedal is almost all the way at the floor before I can shift gears with the engine turning. I figured if it breaks, I'll pull the tranny and start again. What the hell, I only put the tranny in and out of the car three times last week. At least I'm getting good at it. Complete teardown to re-install in 2 hours!
For what it's worth, I remember having stupid crazy problems with my clutch setup on mine also. I ended up extending the adjustment rod so that I had more "pedal" to disengage the clutch so that the shifts would be smoother. I also made modifications to the z-bar, because of the headers. I also tried several different throw out bearings to get a solid pedal that had the required free play at the top and still disengaged the clutch enough to get smooth shifts. It's been 10 years since I last worked with it but I do remember thinking "why can't it all work the was it was designed?"
