A couple observations of the SP3

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by Mark Demko, Oct 26, 2015.

  1. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Im sorry but coming from someone that has owned/built a 600hp GN 2004r's are BOAT ANCHORS, I spent $3k on mine built by Janis and it lasted 2500miles and about 50 passes with soft 5psi launch, 2nd gear band would burn due to simply not enough surface area. For a street car that gets driven like a Granma or a low power setup they may be fine but for something you gonna beat on a 200r is not a wise choice. And before the whole "look at all the GN's running 10's with them" starts let me just say the vast majority of those either don't use the car regularly or keep a spare trans on hand I promise you. The above is my opinion ive never messed with a 350 Buick and seriously doubt I ever will no matter what parts become available, as a Tomahawk is next on my list
     
  2. gsjohnny1

    gsjohnny1 Well-Known Member

     
  3. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    There are a few shops who claim to build 2004rs that will hold the abuse and they even offer offer a warranty with the trans. I had a 1 year warranty on mine when I bought it. $1900 for a trans good for 750hp 650tq. They offer a transmission good for 850hp 1000tq too. Lifetime freshen up for $400. If it was such a horrible transmission no one would recommend it. Seems at higher power levels it's a better unit compared to the 700r4.
     
  4. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

     
  5. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    4r70w, and 4l80's are the only overdrives that have proven themselves to me. Walk around the pits at the Nats and see how many trans are apart or being swapped with a spare. Most the turbo regal guys that truely use their car have thrown in the towel and gone th350 or 400,..when induce sticky tires into the equation those "ratings" go out the window and Lonnie at Extreme is an awesome builder of the 200's but he stays extremely busy and shipping trans isn't cheap so you have to factor downtime and shipping into the equation also. And yes a 200r is better than a 700r mainly due to parts availability that and a 700 has such a goofy gear split. Because they were put behind anemic Chevy TPIs and TBI's they had so little hp they had to gear the crap out of them so they would move out of their own way up to 50mph anyway
     
  6. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    In a dedicated track car I'd agree a 200 isn't your best bet. But at that point why would you even need overdrive in it? I agree the 4l80 is a much stronger transmission but I feel the added cost isn't worth it on one street strip car. If I break my 200 this year after the turbos then I'll eat my words haha.
     
  7. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Nothing wrong with a good Th-350 trans and 3.42....
     
  8. deluxe68

    deluxe68 Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the breakdown.

    Tony
     
  9. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    [rant]

    See this is what I'm talking about, and I'm sure others agree. You can't browbeat someone into listening to you, you have to present your ideas in a way that will be more easily accepted, and even if they aren't, will be respected if for no other reason than you put it nicely. Is it really that hard??!

    I'm a forgiving sort of fellow, but dammit man... Some people need to pull the sticks out of their asses and take a whiff and see that theirs really does stink afterall...

    Too much macho posturing and strutting means someone's trying to overcompensate for something else that's lacking, if you know what I'm saying.

    I know I won't take no **** from anyone, and I'll stick up for anyone who's getting it stuck to them because I cheer for the underdog--it's why I love the Buick 350 so much in the first place! :grin:

    C'mon fellas, it doesn't mean you're a wimp or a sissy if you're nice to someone and don't immediately start an attack if something doesn't go your way. Try to act your ages, will ya?

    We'll take it in baby steps at first. I've seen a lot of progress lately on this forum and I really appreciate the effort people have put in to make this a better place for everyone involved, not just for a select few who think they're better than everyone else.

    So let's just forget all this crap and start over with a smile, shall we? Don't make daddy get his belt. lol

    Disclaimer: this is not directed at any one particular individual, but at a few (you know who you are!), and to anyone else to whom it may apply.

    [/rant]

    Back to our regular scheduled material.


    Gary
     
  10. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"


    This is important information, thanks for the input! My 2c is that we all need to know the limitations of whatever it is we're going to be dealing with, which is why I go on and on about testing and figures and theories, to compliment the experience that myself and others (such as yourself) have.

    It is important to share experiences and give tips and whatever, since it is another important piece of the puzzle that eventually gives a larger picture.

    Seems the 200-4r is a great transmission up to a point, and your experience shows us another point of view on its upper end limits. It's also why going to the Tomahawk block is next on your list, because you know the limits of the fragile big block Buick. This is not intended as a jab, it's just truth. Those big blocks are good up to a point, but we've discovered the limitations of those too, and so was why the Tomahawk block was created to take it beyond what the factory iron block can handle. Same is true for other makes of engines.

    P.S.--although it is kinda funny that you just said the 200-4r is a boat anchor because it can't handle all that power, then turn around and say you're going to the Tomahawk block because your big block is a (fill in the blank). lol!!! Ok, that was a bit of a jab, but it was done with a smile and a pat on the shoulder. Interesting when light is shined on other angles or points of view eh? It can be a real eye opener. Trust me, I've learned the hard way and am a better person now because of it.


    Gary
     
  11. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    I agree:TU:
    Im going to have Janis rebuild my 350 trans. and strengthen where needed, bolt it back in, and soldier on.
    Im a bit leary of beating on a 2004R vs a T-350
     
  12. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Hey my th350 is still alive behind my turbo 350 engine, and when or if it ever goes I have a built 4L80E waiting under the work bench.
     
  13. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    I was always a bit apprehensive about using the 200-4r too, based on some of the weaknesses it has (can burn up easily if it sucks a little air, TV cable comes out of alignment, etc. etc. etc.) Whereas the Super Turbine and Turbo Hydramatic transmissions are damn near bulletproof, even in OEM form.

    Plus they're quite a bit cheaper to boot. Heck the only real advantage the overdrive trans have over the others is the fact that they have an overdrive gear and you can use a lower gear ratio (which is a big big reason to use them obviously). There's always going to be a tradeoff. Just gotta find that sweet spot and compromise that you can live with.


    Gary
     
  14. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"


    Ditto, only I prefer the 3.23

    Steve (Underdog350) uses the TH350 and 3.42 behind his Crower level 3 powered Buick 350 and runs mid-upper 13's with it AND gets 20+ mpg. lol How 'bout them apples?


    Gary
     
  15. DauntlessSB92

    DauntlessSB92 Addicted to Buick

    I had a th350 (original transmission to the car) that had 30,000 miles on it. The car was in a fluid and the transmission was full of water. I was young and dumb (I still am I guess haha) and just disconnected the cooler lines and put a bucket in front. I "flushed" the transmission with fresh fluid till it didn't look like a strawberry milkshake anymore and then drove the car another 15,000 miles before the overdrive swap. The th350 was still good after all that time.

    In fact, I have another car with a chevy th350 that blew up. So I took the Buick guts and put it in the Chevy case. Everything looked perfect. Rebuilt that Trans for less than $50. So these t350s certainly take abuse and aren't sensitive to hiccups. I have to admit

    I can't say the same for the 2004r simply because there were silly little issues that killed them. My first 2004r had a TV cable break that fried it and the second one my torque converter drive hub cracked in half so the pump wasn't spinning anymore and it burnt up 2nd gear. Lonnie helped me out with the second one though since he built it and sent me a 3rd 2004r which I still have. I hope it lasts a little while. I know if everything is ideal there should be no issues. I just have to be extra careful
     
  16. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 27 years of racing the same 355 Buick motor

    It's ok, jab at me all you want, I ran the 350 trans for a very long time and is a great trans to use. I have seen it behind big blocks and seems to hold up. My 200 has been in there for 10 years now has had plenty of nitrous hits going down the track. I just got tired of being at 3000+ rpm taking a hour long trip to the track. Maybe my trans was just built better than others.

    That tight suspension I have should have broke that 2004r trans a long time ago. Go read up an the H-O Racing strong arm suspension and you will see just how much stress I am putting on that trans with the nitrous. Maybe I can break it next year and this will give more ammo against it. I ran drag radials the whole 10 years too. I can bake the 275-60-15 TA radials to the ground so why use them.

    My rant is just an opinion I can't force my opinion on anyone and if anyone thinks I am your not listening to your own ideas and thoughts. Think about how you want to build your car and what you want to do, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Make sure you read about how parts work before buying them. Think before you stink. lol

    But now we think the trans is the problem as to why the car is now running 14 sec time slips. Start by changing the fluid and filter. If it does not smell burnt it may not be the problem.

    It takes about 5 minutes to join the other web site and read what gsjohnny has done why should he repost it here. What, you need traffic there to go read. oh shoot another rant in trouble again.

    I'm done, don't need it.
     
  17. stk3171

    stk3171 Well-Known Member

    This intake thread turned into a trans thread. start a trans please!
     
  18. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Right you are! My apologies. It's all too easy to get sidetracked. :eek:

    GF
     
  19. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    I just posted a new thread in the Juice Box section
    Sorry for the thread getting of course:eek:
     
  20. gsjohnny1

    gsjohnny1 Well-Known Member

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