Remanufactured 700R4 Transmission. Do you want more for your money? The 700R4 transmission has been perfected years ago so who ever you buy from chances are that you'll be getting a good Transmission. My question to you is, Do you want the just plain Jane unit for your money or do you want more? From my experence, most companies (Example B&M Transmissions) will sell you a 700R4 that comes with all new soft parts, recondition pump, corvette servo and a Shift Kit for $1639.95 (Summit Racing Equipment, October Catalog page 225) plus you still have to pay for shipping! If getting the most for your dollar is a factor, this what is what I have to offer you. All 700R4s are late 30 spline, built for Street/Strip applications that will hold up to 500 Horse Power. Our front pump is the heart of our Street/Strip 700R4 Transmission. New 10 vane rotor/slide assembly, trans-go unbreakable steel rings and heavy duty priming spring, Trans-go HD pressure regulator spring, .296 intermediate reverse boost valve (For manual shifting feel)and a .471/.500 boost valve. All friction are Borg Warner and band is the early wide design band. Corvette servo, new bushing kit, thrust washer kit, new Torrington bearing kit, and new sealing ring kit. When it comes to the brain (Valve Body) of our Street/Strip 700R4 Transmission We use nothing but the best! Trans-go! Fairbanks is our runner up. You have choice of Street/Strip or Off Road reprogramming kits. Have I left any thing out? Maybe that why my units keep on running and running! You can get one of my remanufactured Street/Strip 700R4 Transmission painted the color of your choice and shipped within 48 hours for $999.00 plus shipping and handleing and yes, all our units comes with a remanufacture 1600-2000 Stall Torque converter. Give us a call at 916-686-2868 and ask for Art (Abernethy Racing Transmissions). We'll be glad to answer any question or questions you might Have! Sound like a good deal? Or somethin made with cheap knockoff parts that wouldn't hold my 480 hp 455? I'm in dire need of a Engine oil dipstick tube and dipstick, Im using the one off my old 512ci caddy racing engine, which doesnt fit NEAR what it needs to be. Anyone know if the lame tubes/sticks that autozone has for a 1970ish Olds 455 would fit just the same as a normal 70 Buick 455? Assuming their both GM I'd think so, but Im not sure. 700R4 or a 200R4? Need to find either one cause in southern orange county, driving on the freeway at 55 at 3000 rpm isn't very subtle when you have the exhaust dumped off at the rear axle (3 1/2 in.) I need somethin with an overdrive, and I know about the 1st and overdrive deepness/height making the 200R4 the better for racing, but the strength of it? Will it hold up to what I need? I think the 200r won't last. Any advice would be GREAT. Thanks again for your help guys. It's appreciated.
If you want to work with a local company that sells quality stuff, get with Art Carr or Bowtie Overdrives. Their both SoCal companies.
I'd go with the 200 4r, Pro builders agree its a better trans in stock form or built, than the 700. Its durability has been proven in the Turbo Buicks. If it can hold up behind a turbo 6, it will do fine behind the 455. Mark
maybe it's just me but i seem to remember that 700r4 are only made for chevy bellhousing bolt patterns. 200-4rs are made in both chevy and bop (buick old pontiac) bolt patterns. I thought the 200-4r was ALL you could use. Unless someone makes a kind of 700r4 adapter. I seem to remember some people running 11's on a 200-4r on this site too. So they can be built pretty strong, they're just not terribly exceptional from the factory.
HUH? I'm stunned to see so many people afraid of the 200, and voting for the 700. Depending on which one you get, of course, the 200 is NOT weaker than the 700. I wonder if people think because the #'s higher that it makes it a better tranny??ou: Same people used to say the same about T350 vs T400. (AND the PG, and look at the aftermarket for them now!!) Its real simple, IMO. 200 bolts to a 455. 700 will not without an adapter. (or a NEW replacement bellhousing, like JW.) 200 does not require crossmember or mount modifications at all. 200 has better gear ratios perf-wise. 200 is basically the same size as a T350 I don't see a whole lot of GN-guys complaining about the 200, no matter how fast they are going! However, I would not expect not to have to make perf mods behind a strip-use application, but that goes for any of these other trannys also. Including the "mighty" T400. I don't see any reason why the 200 would not be the FIRST choice of 4speed OD auto tranny for the BBB driven "normally" on the street. o No: I'd love to hear any good/bad stories about this swap into a GS, 350 OR 455.
You want all the durable hard parts? Go see the guy that makes most of them. He's in Sacramento. PTS's website is here The trans from my car is from there, and despite some teething problems it's been good since we worked them out. And Bruce at PTS treated me right while we were working them out. Just about the only thing the GN guys swap to is the TH400, and that is usually because of cost and/or they don't have any use for the overdrive because they have a race car.
I'm using a 2004R FROM CK Performance in NY. Its been in the car a few weeks and Chris, the owner is helping me work through a few issues, but nothing crazy so far. He is very knowledgeable and is a good guy to work with Bob
I have ran for about a year with the 2004R behind my 455 in my Regal, hasn't batted an eye yet. I have thrashed on it several times and even dragged raced it, still works good. I'm at the point now where my Regal is my daliy driver scince my wagons trans went. Sweet spot for crusing with my 3:42's is around 2300 rpm's at about 72MPH ,where she pulls a decent solid 18mpg. So don't even fret over the descision, go with the 2004R, it bolts up to the Buick it's trans mount is in the same location as the TH400, just get a good lock up kit from Bowtie Overdrives. Hope this helps PS... also check out Bruce Toelle's shop ,PTS/ 2004r Performance Center. http://www.ptsnctb.com/ He's the guru on making these trans hold up under any conditons :TU:
2004r I'd recommend the 2004r. I buillt it myself and was real happy with it. I ran it for two years and sprayed nitrous on it the last year. It went 11.47 on motor and 6.80 at 102 in the 1/8th on spray. I had a stock band break in it once when I got stupid with my car one night when it was still cold. It could have been a defective band too for all I know. I still had 1-3-4. It just revved a bit before ir hammered 3rd.
Well........ I'm running the 700r4 in mine. I've had serveral 1.71's to high 1.8's (probably in the 30 to 40 run's range). The car with me in it is 4200 lbs. So far so good. The only complaint I had a was bug that was making it hold 2 to 3rd gear (when manually shifted under WOT). That has since been fixed ( a hole in the seperator plate needed to be opened up). Now it works like a champ. The good thing about the 700, is parts are still being developed for it since GM is still using it. The hard parts from the 65E tranny swap over to it. You do have to run an adapter for the trans (I have had no problems with mine) The also make a tailshaft cover that relocates the transmout point so you don't have to move the trans crossmember. All and all, I expect my 700r4 to put up with many more mid to low 11 second runs, as well as hard STREET use. My car is not babied, and the 700R4 has taken everyhing I have thrown at it. (were not talking just a coulpe of WOT passes) were talking alot of abuse (over 500HP and 600lbs going through it quit often) This is done via lots of good hard parts. If your serious about getting a 700R4, I'd check out this site............. http://www.transmissioncenter.net/highperf700r4.htm I'm running all the hard parts they offer for the 700. With the kit and the converter, expect to spend about 1,500 bucks to have someone build the trans (with your providing the trany) IMO both the 700 and the 200 are good trans. The only thing I question is how long the 200R4 would last making serveral 1.7 to 1.8 60ft passes in a 4200lb car???? The 700R4 sure has put up with a lot and I feel it has ALOT more in store.
FYI... The TH-400 in George Sweesy's tube chassis car (3200 lbs) sitting behind the 727 ft lbs of 525 power, has exactly two upgraded hard parts in it. The input shaft, and the forward clutch drum. Not because either of them broke, but because he wanted to not suffer any "potential" problems. That car runs 1.27 60" times,the trans brake let's go as high as 5000 rpm at times. 99% of the folks out there need nothing more than a well built 400. If you want overdrive, serioiusly consider a GV unit.. After you break down the costs, you will find that starting from nothing, the TH-400/converter/GV setup will cost more any "bulletproof" late model GM OD trans, but.. It's highly unlikely that you will ever break it. Now, if you have a good working TH-400 and converter, then the cost of just the GV overdrive will be considerably less than starting from scratch for a OD trans. And there should be no "issues" to sort out. (Shifter Pattern issues ect..) Just something else to consider. JW
I agree with Jim :TU: For about 1k more, I could have goten the GV unit. The only issue I saw was it not clearing my X system....... However, including the price of selling my th400 I'm only into the 700 about 700 bucks. It's been worth well that being able to clip down the freeway at 75 or 80 driving to the track and shows :Brow: Had I known I'd be making the kind of power I am now with the charger and all, I would have anied up for the GV unit and made it work..... However, the 700 would be a way good choice for the cruisers out there runing 13's to low 12's IMO
for more info on the 200.. check out the topics here.. a quick scan proved what I thought was true. Into the 11's and high 10's, there seems to be some sucess with the built 200's but still plenty of failures. Anything faster than that, get's a 400.. I know two or three of the "big guns" in turbo Racing, and every one of those guys long ago went away from the 200.. You will find this to be true of most of the really fast Turbo cars. And all the topics on "my car does not shift right".. would scare the crap out of me, if I were a GS dude, potentially looking to upgrade to an od.. http://www.turbobuicks.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=24 JW
Sorry Adam.. Gear Vendors Overdrive Here is their site: http://www.gearvendors.com/index.html Now, one other very important point, relating to performance, needs to be brought up.. The GV is a gear splitter.. meaning you can have OD in all 3 speeds of the 400. And 2nd OD is a wonderful gear, in a car like Rich's.. Your technically getting a 6 speed trans, not a 4 speed, and the gear splitting feature will actually be useable for performance driving. When we build the tube car, I will put a PG in that.. because it will be light enough for one.. but it will also have a GV behind it, which will give me a 4 speed race automatic. And it will keep the crank and rods off the racetrack... going thru the lights at 150+, with a 4.88-5.13 rear gear.. :eek2: I'm going the light car/ well geared/ not billion dollar motor route.. knowing that the motor in a race car, is by far the highest "wear item", and we race alot.. And also because of the issues that crop their head up, with the currently available stock blocks for the BB, when you want to make 800+ HP. Like everything in life, there is more than one way to accomplish a goal. JW
So, theoretically, on a TH400, you will have: 1st gear: 2.48 1st OD: ~2.00 2nd gear: 1.48 2nd OD: ~1.25 3rd gear: 1.00 3rd OD: ~0.75-0.50 uzzled:
If I had a good th400 to start with I would have done what JW suggest and gone with the GV setup. However my ST400 was scrap and that did the deal, it made a +$500 deal into a +$1400 deal. I also went with the 700r4 for the availability and cost issues my kit came with everything to install it using the stock crossmember, the adapter plate is all but invisible, it all came to about $300 less than a comparable 200 kit. Both the 200 and 700 can be built to equal strength and realiabilty per all the shops I spoke with it's just some specialize in one model.
I'll venture the say that you can get any hard part for the 2004r that youcan for the 700r4. This now includes a HD set of o/d planetaries. The advantages I see either the 700 or 200 have over the 400/GV is weight, fitment without floor modifications(not sure with GV unit), possibly less parasitic HP loss, and a wider gear spread between low and o/d without buying an aftermarket low gear set. Lastly, can you cruise down the highway at 2200 RPM with a 4000 RPM stall-speed converter? I can because I have a lockup converter in my 2004r. The TH400 has the gear splitting which probably isn't much of an advantage unless you have the narrow powerband of a race- engine(well I wouldn't call George's torque curve narrow though), and, of course, BRUTE STRENGTH. Wait a minute, we've had several people on this BB with shifty problems on their TH400... That does remind me of one other advantage, you can take a TH400 to just about any trans shop or do it yourself and have a pretty reliable trans. Not-so-true when you have a HP 2004r. Just like a race engine, you have to expect more attention for it to stay together. The real fast turbo guys w/TH400 probably aren't highway driving thier cars much either, are they? o No:
well its kind of obvious if all you want to do is race the car, and you're set on having an auto, then the th400 is the way to go. But most people who want to swap a 700-r4 or 200-4r in are mainly using their car for street use and just want to have that extra gear to keep fuel milage bearable.
True, If your just after keeping the R's down on the highway, then one of the OD transmissions is the most economical route. But, either the 200 or the 700 has a much more complex valve body than the 400, and as with anything else in life, the more complex it is, the more there is to go wrong. Weight kills transmissions more than power. And there certainly are things we do to a TH-400, in a 4000 lbs 500+ HP cars, to make it more durable. But the deal is this.. that 400 was orginally designed and built to haul 5000 lbs cars and trucks around, so the parts are bigger to begin with. I have done a couple 700's and 200's, and the parts in those transmissions are like tinker toys compared to the 400 stuff. TH-400 shifting issues are not all that common.. a quick scan of our trans thread showed only 1 post in the last 100 days where there was anything actually wrong with the trans.. and we did not hear a conclusion to that thread. One other post was a simple lack of fluid. It's every other post on the turbo sites Tranny sections, just about.. But even here, there are more guys talking about shifting issues with the OD trans, than with any 3 speed. Simply because they are more complex. Now go look for a "I broke my TH-400" post... you won't find it. Parasitic loss in the tranny is something you need to worry about if your C stocker is .02 off the national record.. I guess my deal is this.. I don't really understand the desire to cruise down the hyway at 1800 rpm... very few of these cars (and there are exceptions, I know) are used on a daily basis, or even ever driven long distances. Most of the engine buildups out there are just fine with 3.08- 3.42 gears. And if you have a motor that needs the deeper gears in the rear end, then I am willing to bet that a truckfull of od transmissions won't get you anything that resembles mileage. I can understand a hot rod, with a decent size cam and good flowing heads, that is used to play at the strip, and yet they still want to be able to drive here and there, without dealing with the 4.10 cog in the rear.. And that car needs the HD trans stuff, hence my suggestions for a 400 with a GV unit. It is my opinion that if you broke down the dollars and cents of what your going to pay for a good 400 vs the cost of an OD trans that could handle the same power, and then calculated the cost of fuel, and reconciled it with the difference in gas mileage, the vast majority of these cars will never get driven enough to realize any cost savings. And one hard parts failure in an OD trans, and your heavily into the red ink.. The other issue is upgrades... your OD trans was fine at 450 HP, but after you bolt on those Shiny new aluminum heads somewhere down the road.. will it live then? OD's are prolly more of a "neat" thing... let's face it, we do plenty of "neat things" to these cars. For no other reason maybe than that we want to. Nothing wrong with that for sure.. But what could be neater than a 6 speed trans?.. Ok.. a VP 6 speed trans... We are doing a couple of 400/GV deals with cars in the shop, and one car is getting it for the "neat" factor, one is getting it because it's gonna get flogged at the strip, so it will have some gear in it. So you see why I feel the way I do about the whole OD thing.. JW
