Hi guys. To start, no this is not about the GS, it's staying an auto on the floor. The 350 trans in the 70 Olds my dad and I are finishing up is questionable and as long as we have the motor out to rebuild, we've been toying with the notion of swapping it over to a 4 speed. Probably an M20 (small block car). Anyway, I know its not a Buick, but I figure it's got to be similar right, being BOP stuff? And you guys are the best resource I know of so here are the questions: -What would the cost be around to make this swap, assuming the trans can be bought for around $1,000? -Are all late 60s, early 70s M20's about the same?, (i.e. will a Chevy M20 work in an Olds?) -How many hours roughly would it take to complete this swap? -Are the parts needed to change over somewhat easy to obtain? To be more specific the car is a 1970 Cutlass Supreme 2 door Hardtop and its currently auto on the column just f.y.i. Thanks in advance guys.
The time is the same as for a Buick. If you have everything it should take a weekend of hard work. As for the trans any M 20 should fit fine. You might have to hit an olds board like this one to see what parts you need. www.thepartsplaceinc.com sells some olds stuff and show a manual conversion in the catalog.
The first step is to find out if the crank is machined for a pilot bushing. From what I understand, if the crank was going into an auto, it didn't get machined. I think Dick Miller makes a special pilot bushing for this situation. But research it first before you start making an investment in parts you may not be able to use. Aside from that, its a bolt in. I swapped Jen's 73 Mustang to a 4 speed. That was 10 times more difficult that an A body. Mainly because Fords are so foreign to me. The majority of it I did over the coarse of a weekend. For me it was easier to just pull the engine and auto as a unit. I assembled the clutch and 4 speed on the floor and reinstalled it together. Made life easier. Tony Yac and I swapped his Skylark over to a Super T-10.
Thanks guys. That kit actually isn't that expensive considering what it comes with. Would still have to get a floor shift column, and of course the trans and a few other things. But I think my uncle probably has a column and I just found a guy about an hour away selling rebuilt Muncie M20's for $750 to $900. So would it be reasonable to think this could be done for under or around $1,500?
I updated my conversion thread http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...sion-68-72-BUICK-A-Body&p=2380846#post2380846 with this info: The most recent conversion I did cost about $4320 which was last year, prices should still be relevant. 4 speed parts - Complete Conversion $1,900.00 Speedo Cable $19.00 Rock crusher M-22 4 speed $1,600.00 HI-ENERGY TRANS MOUNT $25.00 HEIM JOINT $10.00 Clutch $265.00 floor shift speedo $200 Floor shift Steering column $150 Carpet Kit $150
Oh wow. The conversion kit on the Parts Place was like $300. Would it be missing that much compared to the Buick kit? It says "everything you need minus clutch, flywheel, and bell housing". As well as shifter and linkage, but those are included with the M20 for $900 total. How much would a flywheel and bell housing cost? And also what brand clutch did you use? Thanks
Typically, a used shifter with linkage is $200-250. A used Muncie is around 700-900. If your buying one used, be sure and take the side cover off to inspect everything. Last Buick flywheel I sold I got $250 for. I would imagine the Olds flywheels are about the same? It definitely adds up. If you shop around, I would guestimate you can do it for $2500. As with everything else, whatever you think its going to cost, double it.
I used a ZOOM Perfection clutch kit. There are better clutches but that one is decent As far as parts, below is a list from my conversion thread; may not all be applicable to your swap. 5) Procure all parts 68-72 Manual Transmission Swap Parts List Manual Transmission Floor hump sheet metal. A pattern of the transmission tunnel is very helpful. Ask around theyre out there to borrow to mark out the position close to a factory layout. Correct Clutch & Brake Pedal assembly with pedal pads Clutch pedal rod to Bell Crank (Z-Bar) & fire wall boot Firewall steering column plate for manual transmission Manual Transmission Speedometer Manual Transmission Speedometer cable & grommet Manual Transmission Steering column. A floor shift column works but is not correct appearing to a trained eye. Each year varies from the others with key in column, reverse lockout, and manual shift vs. floor shift automatic. 70-72 utilizes a neutral safety switch & wire harness extension 70-72 utilizes a reverse lockout. A 70-72 steering column is required for this all to function. The frame bracket & frame : transmission linkage rod, spring assembly from the automatic is re-used. Reverse lock out transmission linkage is required TH-350 drive shaft yoke & correct length drive shaft. BBB Frame Cross member. Manual Transmission emergency brake cable and hooks Flywheel Surface Prepared and match balanced to the flex plate from the engine Crankshaft Pilot bushing Clutch assembly- pressure plate, clutch disc, throw-out bearing Clutch fork & dust boot BOP Bell Housing & correct bolts Clutch Rod (Bell Crank / Z-Bar to clutch fork). Small block and Big Block are different Bell Crank (Z-Bar) frame bracket including the (2) coarse thread screws Bell Crank (Z-Bar) Bell Crank (Z-Bar) block stud and dust boot Clutch Pedal Return Spring Shifter-Hurst Competition Plus Floor consolette is optional HURST Shifter arm PN#5335. Shifter knob & adjustment set nut. Black ball for non-consolette, white ball with consolette, HURST t-handle Shifter boots- upper and lower boots for consolette equipped vehicles. Non consolette use only one Trim boot rings as required for consolette or non consolette option Trans control switch (tcs) & wire harness from switch to carburetor
Ok. Thanks for the info guys. That's a very helpful list Mark. I would say $2,500 is probably around the tipping point for whether we can do it or not. When it comes the speedometer change over, is it because of the PRNDSL lettering not being correct for a manual or would the original speedo not function with a manual trans?
It is to make it "correct" but you can use the old speedo just fine. The column is so you can lock it in reverse and the key will not lock the wheel until you have put it in reverse. If you wish to forgo that initially, you can skip it until your budget allows.
The cost to make it "correct" is half the cost or more in a Buick. Seems like a lot more Olds had 4 spds thanbuicks. I have seen standard cutlass with 4 spds. Skylarks base was 3 spd but very few were built with std shift and I do not remember ever seeing a skylark with a 4 spd original equipment.
Good to know. This car is just one we're trying to finish and be able to have some fun with. Correctness isn't too important right now and we could fix the detail issues down the road. And I too have noticed the difference in number of manuals in Cutlass' vs. Skylarks. We just went through what we need parts wise for the motor yesterday and the final cost of that will effect if we can afford to do the conversion. We're basically building it to W-31 specs. We may have to wait until next winter for the conversion if the TH350 in it is ok, but right now that's a big if. And also do you guys know where to find the numbers to see if it is the original block? I know its the correct year, but other than that I can't find any numbers. Sorry for another non-Buick question, but I really appreciate the info.
Thank you Greg. I have scoured both sides of the motor, left to right, front and back, but where it says the vin and id numbers should be it is completely blank. It says this could be the case if it was a warranty block? That was actually what I was wondering as my research tells me that with it being a Cutlass Supreme, in 70, it was supposed to come with a 10.25:1, 310hp 4 barrel 350, but this motor seems very original and has low comp. dished pistons and is a 2 barrel. Its got the correct 3.08 12 bolt rear the Supremes were supposed to have, but the motor specs definitely don't line up. Interesting stuff.
