They are all made by the same guy, so I am guessing not. Don't get too frisky with those floors. If you decide that perhaps you want to go the route I am, you will want as much original metal as a "skeleton" there as possible. That one hole is pretty big, all right. But nothing else looks terrible. I am going to use POR-15 putty, which is supposedly some pretty amazing stuff, to fill any voids left underneath after I patch the insides. I will sand this stuff just like you'd sand Bondo, to hide any repairs from underneath. Then I will also coat the floorpans underneath with POR-15. Between the two layers of POR-15, the putty, which, it is said, is so strong you can drill and tap it, and the fiberglass mat, I believe that these floors will be very strong and will never rust again, and I also think that the repair will look very clean, which is important to me. I do NOT want to look underneath, or have anyone else do the same, and see ugly repairs. If this is as strong as 18-gauge sheetmetal, and permanent, which I believe will be the case, then to me that is a workmanlike repair. I believe that it will come out far better than Mr. Newbie Welder (me) trying to cut and patch 50-year-old floorpans with no exact replacement stampings. I was terribly disappointed by that repro pan and I would only use it if my pans were really shot to hell. ---------- Post added at 04:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ---------- Also, I did some extensive reading on isocyanate based paints like POR-15. Sprayed, they are incredibly dangerous and it is very stupid to do so without proper (read:expensive) equipment and care. They cause "painter's asthma" and the damage is irreversible. The isocyanates have no odor, and they waft through the air not like overspray, but like cigarette smoke, which means that they are a terrible hazard to those around you, too. Another extensive study was done with brushing and rolling of these paints, and there is no elevation of isocyanates in the air at all when this method is used. Dermal exposure is another thing, and for that proper gloves and clothing are stressed. This stuff is nasty when mishandled and so I will be very careful. Why is it that the more poisonous a substance is, the better it seems to work?
Well, you've almost got me convinced. Are you buying the kit? http://www.por15.com/FLOOR-PAN-TRUNK-KIT/productinfo/FPTRK/ The repo floor pan would be a lot less and I'm less concerned on how it looks, long as it is durable. Of course it is a lot more work, but as for welding I have my brother-in-law or my son who are good welders. I will know much more when I do some pounding on the floor and look underneath as to what I'm facing, but it's looking more like the holes you saw in the photos will be much larger when I finally get to some good metal.
If you have good (and free) welders, your approach may be different from mine. I would not pound on anything, though- if something is to be cut out, your welders will know without having to pound. And pitted/thin/soft metal without holes or with pinholes is PERFECT for POR-15. If that were all I was dealing with on a floorpan, I wouldn't hesitate to take that approach. I'd brush off the loose rust, prep, and paint. Again, we are not talking concours vehicles here- we're talking about presentable and permanent repairs that will be just as solid as original. After all, these floors are not exactly diamond plate, even when fresh factory metal. And they certainly were not anywhere near impervious to rust. I could make a decent argument that they will be more solid than original, though that may be self-justification for what some would consider to be an unacceptable shortcut taken by someone who is lacking a necessary skill to refurbish old cars. On the purchase: I don't really want to pay their markup for things like rubber gloves and cheap brushes. My plan is to buy one quart of POR, a quart of Marine Clean, and a stick of putty. I'll buy the phosphoric acid (Metal Ready), brushes, and fiberglass mat locally. I have boxes of latex gloves. ---------- Post added at 10:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 AM ---------- Also, I intend to take and publish a lot of photos on this process. Hopefully that will help. It will certainly inspire me to me more detail-oriented in my work.
I talked to my brother-in-law last night, he is an old street rodder from way back. He is the one who will do the welding if I go that route. He said your idea was much easier and it does work just as well, so if I can get the cost comparable, I may look into it more. I do want to poke around on the worst spots to see just how bad it is and look underneath as well. I have all the time I need to do the work, but now that I'm retired I have to watch my spending. So if I can keep the cost down to say $75 or under, I will be much more inclined to try the paint. When are you planning to do yours Bob? I may want to wait to see how yours turns out. :Brow: Wow! This wouldn't be bad at all and I think it would be plenty to do the one side I need to get done: http://www.eastwood.com/por-15-super-starter-kit.html ---------- Post added at 11:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 AM ---------- I went ahead and ordered this: http://www.amazon.com/POR-15-Super-Starter-Kit-Black/dp/B000GGVMIW Seemed perfect for my needs as to cost and ease of use. I guess I can use fiberglass screen over the holes.
I bought a quart each of the paint and the Marine Clean. The paint was $40, the Marine Clean $15, and the putty, $20. Free shipping so I am out for $75 or so. I plan to paint the battery tray, and I plan to do all four footwells of the floors, even though I think the rears are probably in excellent shape. I am going to do the undersides of the floors as well, so I figured a quart would do it. I just ordered it today. I intend to be very delibrate and think each step out in terms of prep and application so it will take me a while to wrap my head around a game plan.
My only intention is to do the right side front as all the rest are in good shape. I think my battery tray is fine also, but it's been awhile since I looked at it. My car came out of South Dakota, so there is minimal rust on it. If the heater core hadn't went out, then that side would be fine also. Of if the carpet and padding had been removed. But they weren't so now I have to paint my rust! Keep us posted on your progress and I will do the same.
Hmmm, must of had a brain fart as my car came from North Dakota, not South. Anyway, while browsing for other parts, I came across this: http://www.rustrepair.com/repair_panels/onlinecat.htm?r=rr&p=sm This looks just like mine and much more detailed than the repo did. Of course it's twice the price, but for something like this, I'm thinking it would be a good investment. What do you think Bob? Oops, guess the details page can't be gone to directly. You have to look under 61-64 Chevrolet floor pans.
My car was a North Dakota car all it's life, up until around 1996. It's rock solid. They don't use any salt on the roads up there, or at least they didn't, so I've been told.
That was the same story I got, no salt. Only rust problems I've had have all been related to that leaky heater core.
My car is from South Dakota. Accounts for the overall very solid undercarriage. I have seen some stuff in the Northeast....ugh. That '61 Chev pan does look just like yours. If you gotta replace the pan that's the ticket. The '59-60s do not share pan stampings across divisions, sadly.
Well, being as I have already ordered the POR 15 starter kit, I've decided to use it, with either fiberglass or metal patches for now as a temporary fix. But I know in the long run I need a new floor pan for that side, something the pictures don't show is just how soft and thin the metal/rust is between the holes. I'ver already spent $25 on the kit and if I end up replacing the pan that will be another $90 plus shipping. Someone asked me if I wasn't going into too many areas of my car to repair at once, but after finding that my floor pan would need to be replaced I looked at the fuel gauge thinking that would be a broken wire and subsequent cheap fix. WRONG! ($79 + shipping) So I thought I would try to fix the front windows as perhaps they had just come off the track. WRONG! (Cost depends on what Dan finds and how much he wants if they are good) I think I'm done for awhile until I get these 2 areas resolved. The cost of just these repairs are quickly going over my budget for such things and I just need to slow down or do only things I know won't cost me an arm and a leg! I know this may not be a lot for some of the guys on this forum, but I am on a strict budget now that I am retired, so I try to find areas where I can just apply some good ol' elbow grease for the fix. Thankfully I got a lot of the big ticket items done before I retired, radiator, exhaust, rebuilt carb, rebuilt master cylinder and brake wheel cylinders, and since I retired I've gotten the heater core and fuel pump. Now the little items which I thought would be free fixes are gonna cost more $$$.
I ripped the remaining floor covering out last night for a look at the back footwells. They are in very good shape. One small pinhole on the passenger side. Otherwise 100% solid and not even much surface rust. I hated to throw away the rubber/carpet flooring, but really, what am I going to do with it? No one's ever going to reproduce it. Still, I did keep the little squares of rubber with the part numbers, just in case I ever see an NOS parts list. Stranger things have happened- someone has an NOS original Fawn '60 LeSabre seat cover on Ebay right now. You would have thought that impossible. Some of the floor had a sort of asphalt underlayment which does not come up too clean after 52 years. So now, my next step is to clean that nasty, sticky tar off of the areas which will get POR-15. The rest, I will leave alone and just work around. There's no rust under that crap... I'll POR-15, mat, POR-15, and then I will epoxy prime and Rust-Oleum the entire interior floor. Then I'll do the underside. Did the battery tray with POR-15 last night. That stuff is really noxious. Windows open and as much ventilation as possible is highly recommended. A little goes a long way- dish it out of the can very sparingly. A couple of teaspoons was all I needed to cover it.
Well, once again my interior is laid bare. More so than ever before. The dash, door panels, and package tray are in. The rest is out. The work will start in earnest one day next wekk. Pics to come.
Looking forward to it. Am curious how you handled the dash, mine is badly cracked and looks like crap, but as you may have noticed in the other thread, at least my COLD light works once again and it back to it's original green color. I'm still agonizing over the floor. The more I use the wire brush, more holes show up. I'm really down to replacing the entire right side pan again, but I may try to repo on Ebay as it is a bit cheaper. At this point I just want it fixed so it looks half way decent and is strong. You said you bought one of these Bob, what gauge of steel is used for the repo pans? Reason I ask is the original floor appears to be about 18 gauge.
If the one on Ebay fits yours like it does mine, don't do it. Skimp elsewhere. It's 18 gauge bit just not very good. My dash is in really good shape. Not much to do there.
The way I figure it, at least it will be better than what I have now. I have started drilling out the welds, but it's slow going. Pretty much have to do it twice for each one, once with a small drill bit and then follow with a 1/4" or so. Also my support bar underneath is not in the best shape, but I think it can be salvaged. The trouble with buying things like this without being able to see exactly what you are getting is it's hard to judge how it will fit. The more expensive floor pan listed on the Chevy site actually looks much deeper than mine, even though it is obviously more correct than the one pictured on Ebay. I suppose it's just a hazards of working on old stuff, you just can't go down to the local parts store and eyeball exactly what's needed. My thought on buying the one on Ebay is that I can actually get away with replacing only half of the entire pan, so even if it is not quite a perfect fit I will have some metal to work with. You're lucky on the dash, the pads can be quite expensive if you have to go with a replacement. I have so much more to do that I try not to think about it. It will probably be last on my list of things to fix.
I've made some good progress with the floor pan repairs. Will post pics as soon as I can. The POR-15, fiberglas mat, and POR-15 putty looks like a winner to me. The passenger side floor responded quite well to the repair and when I am done it will be rock solid. I'm quite sure it will never rust out again, and it will be stable, strong, and look good from underneath.
Here is a picture of the right front floor pan, which was the worse of the two front pans. Hre's a before and after: The fiberglas mat went down over the first coat of POR-15. In retrospect, if I were doing it over, I would have soaked the mat in a tray of POR-15 and laid it down. I think that may have made it easier to get the mat to fit every contour of the floor 100%. The pressing of the mat into the beads of the floor was a pain. Then I went over it with two more coats of POR-15. I applied fresh coats while the others were still "finger-drag" wet. After that, I let it cure for several days. I dry-sanded it with 320 (wear a NIOSH mask, please!). It sands tough - like glass - and then I went over it with one more coat. Then, while still curing, I went over that with a coat of RustOleum High Heat black. This is what I am painting the rest of the floor with, and I wanted an even and consistent look even though it is going to be covered. I should have trimmed the excess fiberglas fibers that you can see in the photo. I forgot, and by the time the first two coats had cured, it was too late. Had I been more cognizant of the edges/fibers, you would barely be able to see the repair. Even in the rear sections, which are in excellent shape, and the trunk, which is also excellent, the flat, non-reinforced portions of a 1960 Buick floor pan are thin. They move when pushed. So I am not going to tell you stories like I have read from others where they took a hammer to the floor and couldn't hurt it. Even the best sections of this floor would suffer under a hammer. I will say that the repair is already as strong as the non-rusted pans and I have not even done the underside completely as of yet. Underneath, I got started with the POR-15 putty. This will be used to fill in the portions of the floor which were completely rusted through. I mixed up a marble-sized chunk and applied it to a couple of the worst spots. Then I wet my fingers and feathered it. 30 minutes later it was as hard as steel. There will be minimal sanding. Once I finish this, I will POR-15 and undercoat the pans. The repairs will then be, as far as I can speculate now, completely invisible from the underside and even more solid. Overall I am very pleased with how this has turned out so far. After all of this, I am going to buy a few rolls of Peel and Seal from Lowes, and use this as the layer between the floor and the carpet padding. This is similar to the asphalt pads that the factory used in the footwells, but I am going to apply it over the entire floor, overlaying the seams. It should prevent any moisture from ever touching the interior floors again. Then I will make my own carpet underlayment, and install the carpet.
Wow, that is some story and the results look very good. But after hearing all you went through I am even more determined to just replace mine. Drilling out the welds will be a pain, but far easier, at least to me. By the time it's painted, I don't believe it will look much different, but at least I will know it's a solid piece of metal underneath the paint. It's not that I doubt the sturdiness of your repair, but for the work involved, not to mention the cost, I think replacing the pan is just a better option for me. My project is on hold at the moment as I need to secure a floor pan, but money has been tight lately, I just bought an 02' Cavalier to replace my aging '96 Z34 Monte Carlo, and I have to spend a few bucks getting it in tip top shape as I have some road trips planned. The Cavalier is not near as fun to drive, but it uses a whole lot less gas! :Smarty: As for the carpet and padding, I plan to use the original padding for all that I can. Only the section on the flat part of the right floor will need replacing. I wish I could find someone with a matching carpet and just replace the right front side as the rest of mine is in very good shape. I don't believe it would be too difficult to put a seam to join the carpet in the center of the transmission tunnel or even at the base of the tunnel on the drivers side.
[HR][/HR]Mosslack, I will send you the floorpan I bought for the '60, if you think you can use it. The stamping will not be identical, but it's not going to be for the '61 pan that the Ebay fella sells, either. Let me know, it's yours on the house if you care to have it. I want to see you moving forward again! Also, is your carpet also Fawn Tuxedo? What is the size of the bad area?
