482, 494, or 500 plus C.I

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by bigdawg70, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. BQUICK

    BQUICK Well-Known Member

    To get 750hp on a street motor you really need a power adder. Turbo, supercharger or nitrous. That way you can run lower compression and smaller cam then have the extra power when you want it.
    If you want to go new alum block and go BIG cubic inches it can be done with streetable compression and cam.....
     
  2. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Gary , not sure why you feel like you never get a straight answer? You've built so.many engines you should be explaining things to everyone else. Not trying to be a tool but your goal is rather ludicrous and you've received several explanations as to why. Before you start worrying about piston speed,side load, rod angle etc you need to forget about thus NA 750hp iron head pump gas nonsense, its not gonna happen chief
     
  3. Rob Ross

    Rob Ross Well-Known Member

    I've built 4-5 strokers over the past 12 years or so for/with friends. I don't think this has been mentioned or maybe it's a given for some but personally speaking I would have any stroker internally balanced. I built a 494 that was a less than 6000 rpm motor but after about 10 years it started to develop cracks on the rod pin (~2.2", 6.8" rod). At that time we switched the rotating assy to a 470 with lower compression (street friendly), inspected the block throughly. After about a year of street driving the block broke the #2 main web. Surprisingly my buddy made it to my house...I'd guess that broken web had 30-40 miles on it. I believe an internally balanced crank would have helped it live along with larger filets on the rod pins when it was a 494. So far good on the other strokers.
     
  4. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    8ad, this has nothing to do with cast heads or my build! My Uncle called me saying he is retiring and is ready for another wild ride and wants me to build a stroker engine! Every engine is different and I have learned to make some necessary changes to stroker combos to make the longer and sometimes make more power. I call Mike at AM&P to get some very viable information and I did, I came on here to confirm it. Trust me, I know a lot more through him and another person but still learnin here too . Sincerely Gary M.
     
  5. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    Hmmm, maybe you need to call Mike at AM&P to get what I got, so you can build a pump gas 750 hp bbb ;) yes, I did that and wanted a confirmation on here but I see some people are scared to tell all ;)
     
  6. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    BQUICK, There is no need to add power adders unless I plan on going above 850 hp ;) Talking to other Buick builders can and will confirm that. My definition of a street engine is anything that can be driven on the street for a long period! It doesn't matter if I gotta use race gas or E-85 it doesn't matter. If you know what your doing, a 12.1:1 Compression engine can and has lived happily on pump gas, but I want some serious power and I don't care if its 14.75:1 compression, I have built several of these high compression engines for street drag racing cars and they have lived happily for several years. I never mentioned if my uncles build would be cast iron or aluminium ;) but once he decides which stroker he wants, I will post which way he went ( cast iron or Aluminium ) ;) sincerely Gary M.
     
  7. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    Ok, guys, back to the 528 4.350 bore x 4.500 stroke and 6.800 rods. What's so bad about this engine? According to three articles I have it make 600+ hp and that's on middly ported cast iron heads ( Kenne-Bell 528 ), now if that's the case there, I see where a simple roller cam and a well ported set of TA Stage 2 TE cylinder heads can make 750+ hp with the same combo. Now, add a bunch of compression you can squeeze another fifty or more ponies easily. There is so many variables that can be up graded to make 900 hp but it will take time and money. Now, what's so bad about this engine build in a cast iron block or aluminium block? Don't hold back now! Sincerely Gary M.
     
  8. Jim Rodgers

    Jim Rodgers Well-Known Member

    Interested in hearing how 14.75 works out for you on the street.
     
  9. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP


    Or 12-1 on pump gas...

    A guy should have a broom and dust pan handy with that kind of setup. :laugh:

    JW
     
  10. BQUICK

    BQUICK Well-Known Member

    Yeah, that's what I run (12.2/1) and I can cruise on pump gas but I wouldn't get on it especially in warm weather or after building heat in traffic.
    So whats the point of having the hp?

    I did it just so I could get to the track before I had a trailer. Switch tanks when I got to the track.

    On the other hand if you spend a lot on a motor why not just run race gas on the street. Small cost compared to the motor.

    Around here there WERE some guys claiming they could run pump gas with relatively high compression. Keyword WERE.

    Every time they got into it there would be a haze from detonation rattling the rings.

    Kinda like smoking cigarettes....sure won't kill you right away....but eventually odds are stacked.
     
  11. Todd69GS

    Todd69GS Silver Level contributor

    Good stuff.
    There really isn't many secrets left with these Buicks. We know what we have with blocks, cylinder heads, max power etc... Heck, we even know the exact threshold for these things before they come apart.
    But then I start reading this thread and it makes me laugh. :laugh:
     
  12. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    Laugh all you guys like but, I do have 3 engines running that in michigan rt now. Yes they are smc but you are forgetting I looking for confirmation not approval ;) Running pump gas on 12.1:1 Has already been done, its about timing and tuning each runner not as a whole engine. You guys only play while I get serious and do things the pro's do. yes its over kill but, while your rebuilding I'm driving ;)
     
  13. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    You are smoking crack if you think you.gonna run anything above 11.7 to 1 on pump gas and USE it like I said you xan putt around on 13to 1 but when you lean on it under real.driving conditions you gonna beat the bearings out.of it if you.determined to.prove what we real racers already know then feel free you gotta alot to.learn hotrod
     
  14. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    Jim, you build your engines your way ( like mass produced) while I build like a true engine builder, very methodological ;) I think out side of the box not what you think should work. I have talked to Mike at AM&P where he has built such engines and the customers were very satisfied . many of the top Buick engine builders tried out for the engine builders competition but never seen you company once, why? Your so called 470 600 hp might of done a good job if you tried out but nope! Mike said he would've if he wasn't retiring . Everyone talks big on cid and there hp but you know something, I haven't seen one Buick go fast without being light or on alcohol or somee type of alternative fuel. Why? Dang jim anyone can see where the problem lies, the cylinder heads. TA is a mighty fine place to get your feet wet but to go real fast, you must have billet cylinder heads made while a tiny mouse smc can walk all over any buick of today and still be street legal. If you think not, show me who can run against Rod Sabury in his vettr with a simple 427 smc with efi, twin turbos and automatic to boot and it runs in the mid sixes! Please tell again why buick is such a gentle men's engine and is so well to have? I know of atleast 12 guys on here beggin to go faster but can't. Jim, I went school for auto mechanics for 7 years and auto machining for 2. Both teachers were both gear heads ( one a old school. nhra drag racer and engine builder and the other a engine machinist for over 30 years, the engine machinist has several engines in hot rod, car craft, and Popular hot rodding. One being the Hot rods own 1957 belair yellow x car, my class built the supercharged engine for that car back then.) I know what I'm doing but you on the other hand are something else, no company man would ever say anything like you said to me, especially if you never tried it. I run 12.1:1 cp with pump gas to get around but when wanting to race? There is a 2 1/2 gallon gas tank with VP C-116 ready. A simple valve switch gets you from pump gas to race gas, wow, who would of thought of that? Hmmmm, must any commpn sense man would.. Sincerely Gary M.
     
  15. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    Hugger, the 14.75:1 engines I built never ran pump gas strictly VP C 116 because we all run nitrous and the VP gas works well. Go on facebook and look up joe gorton, flint,michigan . his car runs consistent 8.32 et's and he drives that car every where. Matter of fact he did last years michigan swing ( drive around the lower peninsula without a single problem.) The smc I built Over eight years ago finally split a cylinder at the top. not bad for gm cast iron 400 smc with 14.75:1 cp ;) Sincerely Gary M.
     
  16. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Go build a car Gary your "theories" are.pointless I willing to.put $1000 cash that my true pump gas full weight.70 gs will jerk the front bump off anything you can liquid nails together
     
  17. Todd69GS

    Todd69GS Silver Level contributor

    I hope to see one of your cars at an event sometime so you can validate all that you speak. Please step up and bring something better than what's in your avatar. You sure can talk a great game and I've never seen someone name drop as much as you do. Just like the cylinder head chatter....until you step up and walk the walk you'll just be eating up bandwidth.....which you seem to be very good at.
     
  18. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    What the hell is a "smc" and a "vettr"???

    And really, you're calling out JW on his abilities when all you have assembled were 3 "smc" engines whatever those are. LOL

    You have admitted in previous posts on different threads that you didn't even do the head port work for those 3 engines and you're taking credit for the power output. Again LOL! Bolting an engine together doesn't make you an engine builder, at best it makes you an engine assembler and if good parts were used and you assembled it right why wouldn't they still be together?





    Derek
     
  19. Buickrat1

    Buickrat1 Well-Known Member

    Back to the question at hand, I have built 700 - 750 HP 482 cu in Buicks with a girdled cast iron block and a nice set of TA Stage 2 Street Eliminator heads. The track Eliminator head will yield a better number. Specs 4.350 Bore - 2.100 rod journal (4.05 stroke) with a 6.800 rod and a turned stock crank. The biggest issue with the Buicks is we do not have enough cylinder head. We are essentially trying to make power with a small block chevy race port on a big inch engine.
    I believe a high VE number on a smaller inch engine is more important then making a big inch engine with not enough airflow resulting in a reduced VE number. Torque gets her out the gate but HP puts her down the track. The trick is to get the average HP numbers up, most guys look for the big number and scariface the average HP number through the power curve. I have seen 494 - 528 inch engines make 750 HP plus HP with average HP numbers ranging at 620 - 630 were as I have dynoed 750 HP on a 482 inch engine with the average hp numbers around 680 -700 through the same rpm band.

    a set of STG 2 track heads that flow 380 cfm should yield 800 HP with the right combination of parts. The engine I built for Mike Modena's 70 Stage 2 car that won the Super 16 race at the GS Nationals was a 500 inch, 13/1 comp, 2.100 journal, a set of track eliminator heads that flowed 380 cfm and a single 1150 cfm carb made just at 800 HP and 700 lbs/ft of torque on the dyno. Even though I believe an aftermarket crank is the way to go especially internally balanced one, a stock crank turned to 2.100 journal well work just fine. if your on a budget I believe the 482 is your best bet. I hope this helps, Dave
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015
    Julian likes this.
  20. BQUICK

    BQUICK Well-Known Member

    Ah, yes...Rod Saboury in his early Vette. I raced him in a Street Car Shootout years ago. We get to the final and he asks me if he can have 20min to cool down as he overheated and puked water all over his motor.
    I said sure take all the time you want. 45min later we run and I redlight from all the waiting and he couldn't even make a pass. That was some "street" car. BIG enclosed trailer with a window so you could see the car in there going down the street. I on the other hand drove to the track and changed tires.

    Hey, I say go for it. If you have the coin anything is possible.....even with a Buick motor.
     

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