Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by Rodney Byrd, Jul 15, 2008.
Gotta love those "weedburners"!
That's just too cool. If it were mine, I'd run it with no skin. Looks great Rodney!
Thanks! I engineered (ha ha!:Brow them, and Charles stitched 'em up, with TA flanges, of course. I guessed on the overall length and the step point, based on an abundance of 455 inherent torque and the extreme overlap (105 LSA) of the camshaft.:idea2: Wanted to pump up the midrange/top end, since we're trans-braking anyway. They are LOUD, and have a very distinct cackle!!!:rant:
Thanks for the input!!! Still plan to run this weekend, and will post results, good or bad ASAP. It has been HOT, windy and rainy every night lately, so maybe the weather will be favorable for the weekend... RB :laugh:
I appreciate that vote of confidence!!! The skin IS in place. It is only covered on the sides to the engine, around the driver cockpit, and the cowl!!! I personally love the exposed "skeleton" look of the front rails, too!!! IMO, this looks best unless you have a hand formed, aircraft type rounded "fuselage" skin (like Garlits' early SR's and The Greek):TU:. The ones that are flat "slab" sided look like a pinewood derby car or a jr. dragster!!!:spank: We may have one of the only FED's with a wedge Buick around, which makes it pretty unique (there is an old photo of one with a stock 455 on PAE's website!!!). In our dragster club, the "SouthernSlingsots" (www.southernslingshots.com click on:"MEET THE TEAMS" then: "AncientOrange" to see our other rail), everyone runs Chevy except one BB Ford, one 392 Hemi, and our MoPar wedge. Now we have a BUICK to mess with them with!!!:blast:RB
PS: I see you have the Edelbrocks on a car. I want to run them on V2.0, with the Pro-Tru's and a .606" KB hyd cam. Could I get some feedback/flow data from you on those heads, or should I start a new thread? Thanks!
Love the slingshots, especially when they have a big Buick between the tubes :TU:
Lookin good! Nice to see something different!:TU:
Looks like a blast!
Reminds me of a short-lived project of mine in the early '90's. The short wheelbase was murder.
Cool roadster! Could we get some details? I like the 430 valve covers with the vertical scallops!!! Your zoomies look better than ours, too!!! I hope our 186"wb helps tame the "Red Beast" motor!!! RB
It was a 10.8:1 308S cammed 436 that was meant for my Electra until a telephone pole changed my plans. My buddie's 302 SBC was too long at the machine shop, so we married his car to my engine. It made some hard charges in the high nines, but was too much of a handful to stay in it. It eventually broke the input shaft on the powerglide...I don't know if he ever put the SBC in there after he'd driven the Buick!
Somewhere I have pics/video of us crushing beer cans under the front tires...it only took a blip of the throttle to get the front end up without wheelie bars.
Here's another I dug up:
Please keep us posted on your progress!
Did you carry a roll a TP with you?:laugh:
Nah, they make big diapers for more than just engines, these days... :grin:
I just got my new issue of Rod & Custom, and there is a story in it about a hotrodder from the old days who ran Fremont Drag Strip in California for about 10 years. There is a picture with the article of four F.E. top fuel dragsters coming off the line at the same time, racing side by side through the entire quarter mile! Wonder if anyone has some video footage of that? The sound must have been awesome!
My input on the Edelbrocks-
I bolted them on out of the box and dropped the motor back in the car with about 48 hrs to spare for the '07 Nats in BG. I didn't have enough time for porting so on they went.
There are a few threads here on the board about how they flow out of the box, and after a little porting. Greg Gessler had some flow numbers on his website at one time if I remember right, but haven't visited there in a while.
I am pleased with them. They lightened my front end. I wanted the future option to run economy roller rockers too.
OPINION: To me they are a bigger brother version of the stock untouched head. What do I mean? The exhaust side of the Edelbrock head is to the intake side of the Edelbrock head what the stock exhaust is to the stock intake, relatively speaking. The exhaust sucks relatively speaking. That means to me there is a large selection of well tested off-the-shelf cams from the stock headed Buick experience over the last 35-40 years. Apply the same dual-pattern exhaust philosophy in picking a cam that has always worked for the stock head and apply it directly to the Edleborck head. Crutch the exhaust with longer duration and you're good to go. That's the extent of my back-yard do it yourself mentality since I never took the time to learn the skills to port my own. My only experience for now with that head is with the 118 cam, so take my comments with that in mind.
Now, back to your thread about cool old dragsters and pics....:TU:
Thanks,"Buick" for the info. I figured with the downward exhaust "dogleg" like most GM big blocks that the Edelbrocks would still be restrictive. I have a friend who races Pontiacs seriously, and he is always hampered by his modified Edelbrocks and their exhaust ports. The guy he gets his heads from buys them unmachined from Edelbrock, and CNC's the hell out of the intake side (they look like a rect. port BB Chevy!), but the outlet side just can't keep up, by design. I know the TA Stage2 heads correct this, but I'm not trying to beat everyone out there, just go a little faster and save weight at a reasonable cost. I already have the SPX intake for a Dominator, some 1.6 Harland Sharp rockers, and the pictured "weed burners" to use right away with the Edelbrocks. I have a KB .606", 108LSA hydraulic cam that I was planning on using, because I don't want to run solid or roller cams and risk killing a block or having to girdle the lifter bores. I may reconsider and run a split pattern custom or TA hyd. grind that favors the exhaust. The KB .606" is supposed to be for maxed-out iron heads, but I know it's outdated (like our FRONT engined rail!!!). RB
Yes! We finally made it to the track and tested "BlackWidow"!:beer Saturday the weather was forecast to be thunder showers, so we were skeptical. Charles showed up with the trailer about noon, and we unloaded "AncientOrange", our MoPar FED, which needed some maintenance anyway. We removed our break in oil (pearly!) and swapped filters on the 455, after a good warm up, filled with new oil and verified 80psi@4000rpm warm.Finally, about 3:30pm we decided to load and go the 40mi to the track and see what happened. It sprinkled rain a few times on the way down, but the track was nice and dry. We had to wait two hours or so for the ambulance to arrive, which meant it was 6:30pm by the time we made our first attempt. I had everything set way conservative, as posted earlier, which prevented a good burnout with our 33X12's. Charles put her in the beams and set the 'brake. Bam! She left hard, with a scary left turn with the wheels up. He lifted and corrected and pedaled off-and-on to a 7.40 at 96mph. Not too thrilling, but it gave us confidence that nothing was going to fly off, and that it went straight as an arrow, except for the goofy launch-turn. I had 8lb pressure in the slicks, hoping to clean them off good, but the burnout limit of 4200 was too low. I reset the burnout to 5200, and raised the shift light from 5000 to 5500rpm. The top limit was at 6000, so I raised it to 6500 (which is really where Poston claims you should shift at with the 105A) and we went up again. I had lowered the tire pressure to 7.5lb and Charles did a good burnout this time. With the launch rpm limit set at 2800, it left hard, with a 1.38 60ft and went a 6.03@115mph, shifting at 5500rpm!!!:grin: (It still had that scary immediate launch-turn left, we know it's a spool rear, we ran it in our other car with no problems...) We went back to the pits and checked everything, charged the battery again and topped off the fuel. In an attempt to ensure a 5 second pass, I raised the launch rpm to 3200, which turned out to be a BAD idea on my part ou:. The next burnout was even better, and the motor was sounding stronger each run. The timing was still on 34deg and we had the 114 gas mixed 50-50 with 93 pump premium (aprox 104 octane), good oil pressure, and the engine temp was very manageable, better than our 383 MoPar in "AncientOrange" (probably because I engineered "BlackWidow" with some overkill, and the "AncientOrange" system was leftover from it's BB Chevy days). Charles let-her-rip again, and this time it pulled a 5ft wheelie (to the LEFT!), broke the 60ft beams with the BACK tires (1.50 something sec. 60ft.), Charles lifted (a little too hard):error: to prevent crossing into the left lane (all our passes were solo runs in the right lane), the front came down with a BANG-SPARKS, and he pedalled to a 6.30@115 in the cooler night air. When we got back to our pit, we observed a bent but not leaking TA fabricated steel pan, and a broken front suspension (transverse torsion bar), which put us on the trailer at almost exactly 10pm.
We learned several things. If you think the oil pan looks a little low, it is. If you have wheelie bars and don't think you'll need them, keep a spare torsion bar setup in the trailer. Charles learned Buicks will surprise you with their torque. I learned also that the burnout rpm limit needs to be 1000rpm or more past the stall speed of the converter, and the 455 does need more than 850cfm of carb flow with our level of modifications in this particular chassis. I feel that when we get past the repairs and go again, with some tuning and less restriction, it should turn 5.80's or better!!! (I'd like to see 120mph)
Our friend Gary (who is a Chevy guy from way back:sleep:, but we let him hang around!) took some good video of our runs, and if he can Email me them, I'll try to post a link. Thanks for all of your input, and if anybody knows where to get a low profile, long sump, dragster-type oil pan for a 455 Buick, let me know!!! We may have to fab our own, if we cannot modify this TA pan... RB :beers2:
Video would be just awesome. It sounds like that was a few hours of time well spent, I wish I could have been there, even just as a spectator. Please keep us updated...these are excellent results right out of the box.
Thank you!:TU: We were well received by everyone there, even some die-hard Ford guys came over and gave us props.:kodak: Most of our cheering section was Chevy guys and a few MoPar people were in our pit, too. The comments overheard from onlookers included "those valve covers aren't wide enough to be a 454...", "no it ain't a Chevy motor, the distributor is in the front...", "that's a GrandNational motor, without the turbo...", "I hope you've already had some kids...:eek2as the guy looked where the rear axle is in relation to Charles' 'nads!!!)", etc. It was funny. We have a tapered Wilson Manifolds spacer under the carb, and people were asking where the nitrous solenoids and plumbing were mounted.uzzled: I was really proud of the results of the first outing. We have already corrected the front suspension problem, and besides some steering box play that we needed to address beforehand anyway, we can go again with the wounded pan. The steering box will be ordered Monday from MarkWilliams, and if it arrives/is installed by next weekend, we could run again that quick. I really want a 5.80 and 120 mph, now that I know we're pretty close...ray: RB :3gears:
Rodney, I'm trying to understand that issue with the hard left on the launch. What are your thoughts? We didn't see it with the altered due to inability to hook it up. We ran a spooled 5:13:1, I don't remember the tire size.
We have 3.91 spooled "chunk" (8 3/4 MoPar, less weight and drag than a 9" Ford, used over 200mph by Garlits, etc.) that, as I posted earlier, was flawless under "AncientOrange". The only real observation about this rear that we made that stood out in analysis last night, was the gun drilled axles.uzzled: Our other car has solid axles, but neither set had noticeable "twist". We are going to cross the slicks next time, and measure the "rollout" while they're off. I have heard of two slicks being the same size and manufacturer with 2" of rollout difference!!! They are marked in grease pencil on the tires at the plant, and are supposed to be sold with 1/2" max variance. I know a guy that mail ordered a pair and had the 2" mismatch. May not be our problem, but I guarantee the tire pressures were equal before each burnout, I check them myself, as critical as that spec is. I have heard of people running staggered pressures to help this kind of problem. We are going to contact the guy we got the chassis from and see if he ever had this problem, and compensated in some way. Another thing I thought of, is a brake caliper issue, sticking/binding on the launch. Charles stages using the hand brake before quickly setting the trans-brake and flooring it. If the left side were sticking, it could be "tractor-steering" for a moment, causing the bias. I am puzzled, too... RB