You sound like you’re already convinced to take It Out and disassemble it. Personally I would try anything first to see if I could avoid that, I hate doing things twice only to find out I was just being dumb. I still think exactly what I said earlier, re-set and re-fire. I kinda went thru this with my last Mustang 347 roller. I adjusted my roller rockers 4 times before I got it right, it was crazy. I wound up doing it the old fashioned way, rotated the motor to get to base circle on that lobe and then hand turn the pushrod until I felt resistance and then 1/2 turn more on the locknuts.
Thanks, Jim and everybody. I will open the filter and start there. I thought I might avoid waiting on Amazon, but the local places are at $80 for a filter cutter, if they even have one. So I will order from Amazon and report back once I get the filter open. Lots of great ideas here. One thing I don't have in it yet are adjustable pushrods, so I may order those too. That way if I decide to restart it with new oil, I can get the preload set uniformly. A couple folks asked about noise. I don't think it ran at idle long enough to tell. I have a video, so I can go back and check. However, as I said in the original post, it was still going at 2000+ rpm and suddenly started to stumble quite noticeably. So I basically released the throttle and waited a couple seconds then shut off the ignition.
Exactly my 1st thought too Joe. Also, did you disassemble/clean/reassemble the lifters? Been a long time since I built a new engine and never did that but will be on the next engine. I just bought a set of what I believe are older but never used Johnson lifters and thought I'd be ok but... Both my basket case cars came with supposedly rebuilt engines that were never fired - Both probably done in the late '80s. I'll be happy if they both just have "new" lifters. Who'd have thought we'd be dealing w/this issue? Supposedly re-grinding used lifters is now a "thing." Those 80k mi lifters & adjustable pushrods may be the ticket.
OK, I did not disassemble the lifters. But I also did not want to wait for Amazon either. I had not seen the two recent posts about just tearing the filter open. But my head was already there as well. I had thought about cutting it with a dremel, but I didn't want to introduce any shavings. So in my own way I went in the shop and fashioned a "filter cutter" using a spare blade of a tubing cutter, an intake, two idlers from Subaru timing belts and a piece of flat 1/4 steel I had. It was kind of satisfying, and it cut the base off like butter. So that was fun .... Since I have never opened one up before, I am not exactly sure what I am looking for. i.e. How bad is too bad? There are noticeable tiny metal particles, for sure. But I guess I was expecting it to be an obvious mess, which it is not. So I took a bunch of photos to see what you guys think. I have a fiber optic camera, so I probably will remove the rockers and take a look through the pushrod holes. But with the intake still on, lifters will be blocking the best view of the lobes. One option of course, is to get the adjustable pushrods, set it up, change the oil and try to run it again.
There’s nothing unusual I see in there. I would expect more from a fresh engine. Also I don’t think you need adjustable pushrods, you have nothing far enough away from stock to warrant that. I just can’t see why you’re reluctant to button everything up, and run again? When you put your valve train back together can you spin the pushrod on an intake valve when the exhaust is opening with your fingers? Can you depress the rockers with little effort? Can you make any of them rattle side to side?
You have to take that stack of filter paper folds and squeeze the excess oil out. until you do that, you wont really see whats lodged there.
If it ate a cam you would see all kinds of stuff in the bottom of filter housing inside. Best 100% way to know is spend 30 minutes yank the intake and just look. Why guess why run it again and make it worse......it might just need a new stick, a crank polish, new bearings and hrs and hrs of washing. Keep running it and it might be alot worse. If in doubt dont guess check it out. Main bearings in a can If you don't use a cutter you can introduce metal into the filter........but not enough to look like it ate a cam
Only reason I mentioned adjustable pushrods was possibly in conjunction with re-grinding used lifters & having to make up that difference.
If it was making noise Im sure you would have picked up on it, most people are attuned to any noises on a first start on a new build. Now that your suspicious, get it running again............. new oil, filter, and listen to HOW its running and if its making any noises. Your trying to diagnose from memory.
See nothing in that filter that would worry me. I recently put the Johnson lifters on a old 290-08 cam and did the brake in as outlined above by JW . the lifters were recommended by TA. Drove about 300 miles and then cut the filter open. Used a cut off wheel on my grinder,dont hate, What I was looking for would have been in the folds of the filter media. Was next to nothing in there. I've seen the inside of a filter where the engine had a failure. Was not pretty!
Is it entirely possible that this rough running after 20 minutes may have been caused by a fuel delivery or ignition issue?
Quick update. The post from 436'd Skylark got me thinking that my measurements were worthless, as I didn't allow for the lifters correctly. I didn't have a lot of time today, but everything so far is looking positive. I removed the rockers and stuck the camera in the pushrod holes. Things look just as they should. So with the rockers removed I could then get the dial indicator poked directly in the hole on the pushrods. On the theory that the spring in the lifter would be solid compared to the tiny push of the dial indicator. So far I checked the back three on the drivers side and they are all reading 0.291. So tomorrow I will check the rest the same way, assuming they are all like these first 3, I'll get it buttoned and run it.. Someone asked why I was so reluctant to run it again. I like to understand when something is wrong, and in this case I would not want to get more crap in the passages and bearing because I was in a hurry. I can always start it a day later .. But I can't go back in time and unstart it if it was a bad idea !! I have a spare set of valve covers so I am planning to mark all the pushrods and cut open the top of a spare valve cover so I can run the engine without oil pouring down the back. Then a new filter and run it again to see how it is. To the question about was the rough running maybe being caused by fuel or ignition, certainly could be. I will pop off the cap and double check in there. I'm pretty confident in the Q-jet. I did it myself, and I've been messing with them for decades. As far as the plugs .. they are perfect. I have them all pulled to make it easier to turn the engine by hand and they look like new.
Good news. Also very easy to jump to the wiped cam conclusion. Was bad enough when we had good lifters but now...
Yep, it looks like my first set of readings were completely invalid and I just jumped to the wrong conclusion. This cam is fine. I'll get it running and see what I find as far as ignition/fuel/vacuum. But I think it is safe to assume whatever the running issue is, it is not caused by something internal. Thanks again for the discussion.
