My first post was my introduction. More details on why I am here, there. Down to business. I have a 67’ Buick 430. I am currently building a late 60’s altered dragster clone which will be street legal. The Buick engine sits front and center for all the world the see. My original plan was to rebuild the 430 with 10 to 1 compression, the B4B intake I already have and new cam. I was looking for 400 to 425 HP, which is possible with this setup. Simple and strong. I stumbled upon a 2-part Motortend article online from 2009. The use of TA’s SE 1 heads were shown to be able to push a Buick over the 500 hp mark. So that became my new build plan. I found a post here from Jim Weise with multiple dynos showing what kind of power a Buick can make with TA heads and right cam/intake combo. But I am building for that ‘Altered look’ and a single carb just looks okay. Most Altereds use 6-71’s or 8-71’s on top, but more about that later. I considered a tunnel ram as it would give me more of the look I was going for and is cheaper than a blower. Online searches seem to show the first commercially sold tunnel rams came out in 68’ for Chevys. A tunnel ram would definitely give the front end some ‘wow’ facture and should increase power. The High-Ram was 2008 Motortrend’s Mopar 383 intake winner over 10 other intakes with most hp and torque. It should work good on a Buick, right? I have read mix reviews on tunnel rams here from the past. The question comes down to rpm’s. A TA block girdle might be needed for that option to get the most hp. If I can find a set of Mopar intake adapters, the SE heads, 10 to 1 compression and a Weiand Hi-Ram tunnel ram for a Mopar 383. That might be the ticket, or a good way of getting one. Altereds generally used root type blowers. A 671 or 871 would be mind blowing, no pun intended. Cost is the largest factor. There are 2 possible builds here. One. Stock 430 iron heads with oiling mods, 8 to 1 forged pistons, forged rods and 6 to 7 pounds of boost. Rough calculation at 40% power increase for blower is 560 hp, that is if the engine makes 400 hp with lower compression. The Motortrend Buick build with 8.77 to 1 made 459 hp with iron heads, so 400 hp appears to be a reasonable assumption without blower and 560 hp with (40% of 400 is 160hp). A TA block girdle questionable as max rpms would be set around 5500 and hp under 600. The second option is more race oriented. TA SE heads and blower. 500 plus hp, 40% increase equals… 700 hp. This blower options would require the installation of the TA girdle to the bottom of the block, though not high revs. Currently, at 70 % completion, the car weights 1460 lbs. The car may tip the scale between 1700 and 1800 lbs when finished. That's more than half the weight of the Riviera the engine was pulled from. Using online racing calculators for the ¼ mile, “estimates” at 500 hp is 9.5 to 10 seconds. I checked half a dozen different calculators from different websites which used similar but sometimes different variables to get those numbers. Yes, real life is different, but the car will still be fast. At the other end of the spectrum, 700 hp plus with TA heads and blower, sets the times from 8.5 to 9 seconds. This is basically a steel legal racecar, not a clone. Common sense says 500 hp is plenty. Tunnel ram for looks and a little more power would be a plus. Gearhead on budget says blower with stock or slightly ported iron heads. Not much more hp, but great looks. Gearhead not on budget says ‘speed costs, how fast do you want to go’ knowing I can cover the cost of a complete blower set up with next year’s bonus with TA aluminum heads. Delima. Whichever option I choose, I still need to rebuild the motor. How much it costs will depend on how much hp I want in the end. TA performance has most of the parts I will need for any option, other than pistons and a possible blower. Any route I take, I want to go with forged pistons. Unfortunately, no one seems to make 430 forged pistons unless you special order them. Any help for a good place to order 430 forged pistons would be appreciated. The TA girdle is around $800. What is the average machining cost to have a machine shop install one. I have read clearances are tighter for Buick on bearings and such than say Chevy. What are other things might I need to know when contacting a machine shop? I have the Steven Dove Buick book, which I bought years ago. It seems insightful compared to other Buick books. I have downloaded instructions as well as watched videos on the oil mods needed to update the 430 to a 455 pushrod oiling system. I can do those mods myself. I have a TA billet flywheel for my 3-speed transmission. I plan to buy TA harmonic balancer from the front end. Thanks for any addition insights y’all can pass along. I apologize now for the really long post but I needed to put it all in there.
If I seem a bit excited here, it's due to the engine rebuild being the last major component of the build.
If this was me--and it isn't--I'd build a lower-budget "placeholder" engine now, because it seems that a lot of what you want isn't available right now. Get an engine together to make the vehicle run and drive. Considering how light it is, you'll have fun even with a moderately-stock engine. In the meantime, while you're driving the car, you can be looking for the Buick/Mopar manifold adapter, researching price and availability on blowers, price and availability on TA heads, price on girdles and locating a suitable machine shop. In other words, collecting parts and info to build the "real" engine once you have the hardware in-hand.
Just a suggestion. Your 430 is just a smaller version of the 455. Since you have to rebuild your 430, you might consider boring it to a 455. You will find more options with forged Pistons, and intake manifold options. The old Altered's used high rise tunnel ram intake manifolds with duel carbs. With your engine bored to a 455, you'll find more engine parts available. Personally, I find the high rise tunnel ram with duel 550 cfm carbs a prefect look for an Altered. Just my opinion and suggestions. Good luck on your build. VET (Navy)
This is a photo of my favorite Gas Class Altered cars. I'm into 50's & 60's Altered. I ran a 56 Belair 53 years ago in D/Gas class. The Belair to the far left is similar to my old Belair. I wasn't completive because my car was a street car, trying to race the "Professionals" was a non-starter. I loved it anyway. However, on the street, I never got beat. 327/365HP, with Tunnel Ram manifold, 4:56 differential, Borg Warner T-10 4-Speed, Headman headers, Accel ignition, Holley Carb and Prowler cheater slicks. VET (Navy)
You estimate et ti.e might be slightly off.. I used a bone stk junk yard 430 motor, small cam withonly 500 lift but alot of duration, my ported iron heads sp1, 1000 cfm 4150 and went 11.30 to high 20s in a car that was 3750. Your looking to be almost 2000 pounds lighter.........if not in the 9s something is seriously wrong. I'd build the motor you can get parts for now, get your car on the track and having fun, you can go bigger later. It will take you years at the parts availability to get heads and machine work done
Being as you said street car Id not worry about a girdle unless you plan to spin it over 5000 every time its on the road. The 430 had a stock rated compression of 10:1. For what you are looking for performance wise most stock over the counter parts will work - heads, cam, intake and headers. The 430 in my Riv makes 420 with a stock bottom end, flat top pistons, TA 290-08 cam, B4B and a Q jet flowing through shorty headers
Briz, that was my original plan to begin with. Honestly, until I crack the engine open and look at what I have inside, it's kind of hard to say how much work I might or might not need. The oil mod. A new timing chain cover for better oiling. A new cam, lifters and pushrods. Changing to pushrod oiling. These have always been the basics on the engine rebuild. If I am going to replace the pistons, I might as well have the block bored. If I want better flowing heads I either have to have mine heads ported or replace with aluminum... which flow better than stock and save 60lbs per set. I started originally with swapping out the cam, aluminum intake and headers and eventually ended up with an 671 bolted on top. It's crazy world we live in with too many option.
Its called making a plan and sticking too it. The ohbwhile I'm here.....will kill a project. The heads unless you find someone to get off a set will most likely be a 2 year wait.........but to port iron heads will be 60-75% of buying as cast. But with a 430 bore you will start to get close and restricted in flow with stage1 valve sizes.......but they will fit. Do your homework, make a plan that fits your budget and enjoy the time at the track. 9 second is certainly pay to play area.........it isn't gas it wash race......but a sub 2000 pound car will help that alot
You said you're building a street legal Altered. Being it's a street legal, i'am wondering why you are trying to get 9 to 10 at times. It will not manner for street racing. I agree with Bens99gtp. Having a sub 2000 pound car will be plenty fast for the street. 53 years ago my 56 Altered was running 12.2 et's. There was no factory muscle 6o's or 70's car could beat me. If that is your focus, your only street competition will be a Red Eye, there's not many of them. I also agree with Bens99gtp, you need a plan. (1) How fast do you want to be, ET wise. (2) Focus on how to get to that ET. (3) How much HP do you need from the 430? (4) Rebuild the 430, bore to a 455? What CR will you target. Remember, you'll be running pump gas. (5) what heads will you run? Heads is where most of the power and torque come from. (6) What intake will you run? Remember, high rise tunnel ram manifolds are not easy to run on the street. (7) What type trans will you run? (8) With a very light car and lots of HP, how are you going to get good traction? You know what they say, spinning ant't winning. I guess we're all confused as too what you are trying to build. Remember, if you want a street car with lots of power, make sure it's streetable to drive. VET. PS, you don't need a lot of expensive HP Adders to make a sub-2000 pound car fast for the street. Good luck.
Hi all, my 430 (‘68 Wildcat Custom Sports coupe) needs replacement standard sized pistons, as only one is within specs; I was about to order sealed Power 368’s, rings, Mains & rod bearings (all standard sized), but I just read a forum by Jim Weise about how ‘the pistons are 0.080” down in the hole.’ My question is:- would planing the block &/or heads 0.080” compensate for the lower compression ? It’s not a ‘race car’, but I don’t want to lose power. Also, I’m down in New Zealand & only want to do this once ! Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks
I dont want to get too far off the thread here.......its best to start your own not jump in on another.......but don't cut the.block much......too many other issues come from it. Just order custom pistons and be done
You're in good company. Early '90's I had my 430 engine on the stand while I worked on the car. A friend had a car minus engine, so we married the two that summer thanks to BOP adapter to Powerglide transmission. I drove it once at Milan and swore I'd not do it again...I was being cautious and didn't have to pull the 'chute, but the tunnel vision inside the helmet was enough to scare the Hell out of me. Brian, the altered owner had more bravery than me and hit nines with no prob. Broke the powerglide input shaft later that day. FYI home ported iron "big port" heads converted to the larger valves with lots of chamber relief. Angle milled to reduce chamber volume to 59cc. Block decked to zero, w/TRW forged pistons was near 11:1. All oiling mods thanks to long drill bits and die grinder bits. TA's 308S solid lifter cam. Holley 850 with a big riser on top of TA's SP1 single plane intake manifold. Zoomie exhaust thanks to a local Mr Muffler, I welded them over some old KB flanges. Devon
Don't feel bad, I did the same thing when I joined this forum. I'am 74, be 75 in January. I had a difficult time navigating this site. After 2 years at it, i'am not just getting the hang of it. I like what you call an American barn, fantastic build to wrench on your cars. I really like to look of it from the outside. VET (Navy)
