Let's see. Your post is so full of fail I don't know where to begin! Were you drunk when you typed it out? It would make more sense then. So much anger...I'm trying to remember why you would be so hateful towards me. Was it something I said perhaps? No attacks were made by me, only at me. I even tried to be peaceful. There is no 'header theory' going on in these posts. All this information is factual. There's limited Buick 350 header choices because there's always been limited Buick 350 everything. Until now. The views on this thread has jumped well over 1,500 in the past few days. Not many have posted, true. I thought it might be nice to explain a few things for those who didn't know any better. I can see now that knowledge is not appreciated here by some, who seem to somehow feel threatened by the advancement of automotive engineering that they do not understand. The funniest part of it all is not that you think Tony and I are the same person (or cousins, or whatever), but that you think I do not (nor ever have) owned a Buick, much less any Buick 350 (I guess my knowledge about them is just pulled out of thin air?) and have never built or been to a race track with a Buick. Oh yeah that's right, I talk about stock stuff so that's all I must have ever had. Wait, no...I didn't have any of those either. How little you know about your adversary. No wonder you're so bitter about losing. I'm man enough to let things go and bury the hatchet, but you insist on digging it back up and trying to get me in the back with it. I'm a bit disappointed in you, Guy. If you feel you need to take a few cheap shots at me, no matter how untrue they are, then sure go ahead. I'll take it on the chin and keep smiling at you. I hope that you can one day find peace. As for me, the information is here, and that was my intention. You guys can pick and jab and attack it all you want, but it won't change the facts. Gary
problem I see here and most likely fact until proven otherwise, is the 350 theorist's talk a lot of smack. they may have a 350 something. maybe a street address, but my talk is back up with the 350 on the track and if you don't believe any of it, contact any ne-gs/gn guys. they have seen it run. I have not read any of the crap after my last post, nor will I, because I knew the theorists would try and throw down a bunch of b-s on me that I don't know what I am talking about. again contact anybody my way and they will educate you if that's possible. last thing is don't take me for a fool or not knowing things, you might be real surprise how much I know.
And the main problem I see here is too much ego with misnomer verbiage and slander. You hold the crown on smack talking, with a couple others coming in close behind. I say this with all due respect, in the spirit of honesty. "Theorists" that show factual information based on science and evidence (even trial and error) vs decades of just trial and error. I see that both are important, while you only see your accomplishments as worthy of any note. I have no doubts as to how much you know, and I've always respected that. What I won't tolerate, however, is your bad-mouthing others who contribute to the community that may not quite coincide with that you deem as important. So you're against new parts, and that we should just 'get over it' that we only have one header choice. I don't see this as very productive toward the community, even though you have already contributed quite well, you shouldn't be so resistant to change. No one has disputed what you've done here. Why are you acting like your accomplishments are in question? They aren't. In fact, your accomplishments are a large part of the information base that others have used to better understand how the Buick 350 behaves. You should take it all as a compliment, not an insult. If you didn't read the above 'crap' then how could you possibly know what was said? Even worse, base a post on it using assumptions (you 'knew' 'they' would 'throw down a bunch of bs on you')? Tsk. tsk. No such thing has happened. That's the difference between a rhetorical statement and a personal attack directed at someone. There's a BIG difference. You (and others) can try all you want to drag me down into your 'mine's bigger than yours' game, but I will remain steadfast to the aforementioned thread points reiterated herein. I believe everyone's point of view is important (at least those that actually have something to contribute). Would that more would see it this way, but such is the diversity of personality types. Gary
Another article... it has illustrations (pictures) and more information on how headers work. It may be a bit less confusing. URL here: http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/1310-how-to-pick-the-right-header/ There's more information too, all over the internet, if one were so inclined to do some reading. Gary
Give the man some credit here it is a good article. :gp: Reading articles and researching information is the only way to go if you want to know anything about what you are doing. Research is what you must do and even then if you think it is right, it may not always turn out the way you expected or wanted it too. See Gary, I won't screw with you all the time, just once in a while when you can't stop rambling on an on. I know, once in a while you have to have a release from your brain. write on. :grin:
Umm, I think there might be some misunderstanding to my posts. Seemed more like a dispute on the understanding how things worked. I have a different view than Gary does. I am not recommending any fancy trickery for the typical (11.5-13 second) car, which is hardly a challenge to build these days. Not necessary. Those things do have their place. It seems silly to disregard the use of any technology used with many types of motorsports, OEM passenger cars, and other types of ICE's, especially when a header's scavenge might have 9x the pull on the intake tract over the inertial ramming effect the intake itself has. I don't think there's that much difference over any type when randomly thrown at the average, generically built, mild performance vehicle...but they help. I've observed that when specifically factored into the overall package of a vehicle, a custom header makes a difference. If you have to make them, they are definitely time consuming! The fact that there isn't much ROI or perceived value is exactly why you don't see much other than what's already on the market. It's much easier to cast a simple part like an intake, that can fit many build types. (None of this is not directed at any one person.)
Thanks, Guy. I'm a pretty forgiving person I think. I do tend to prattle on though, I know. I get excited and end up going overboard. I'm trying to work on that but there's just so much information! I've always wanted to stress that getting more points of view and taking it all into consideration is the best way to go about it. Research is important, but so is empirical data, testing, testimonies, etc. etc. which does include track and dyno tests. It's all important. Johnny has a good point though: too much can be information overload. I can read between the lines on his posts. I think he's a bit sensitive though, feeling like he's under attack or under-appreciated, and lashes out when he perceives an injury. Others too. Reading back through the posts, I can see that there were a couple places where I could have worded things a bit better. Working on that too. While there will always be disagreements, I'm trying not to let it digress into a pissing match and distract from the information. I also notice that some of the things I accuse others of, I am guilty myself. Trying not to be a hypocrite here and undermine my attempts to convey information. Amazing just how much alike we all can be in the human element. Another life lesson I suppose? Anyway, thanks. I appreciate your civil correspondence. So much talent here on this forum. Damn shame we have to bicker. :TU: Gary
Adding to this, I'd like to say that I discovered that I misspoke on my terminology with the word 'shorty'. In my mind, I saw a header design that was closer to what that last article referred to as a 'mid length' header. A true shorty or block-hugging type header gives a bit over the iron manifold, but not a lot. The mid-length header gives a better compromise between full-length and manifolds/shorties, and is a better alternative for fitment. THIS is what I was trying to convey, and apparently I got tripped up over my own enthusiasm while hurting others in the process. I feel a bit embarrassed and ashamed for this, even though it was inadvertently done. And so for this, I apologize to everyone. My intentions are faithful to the Buick 350 though, and improving it in any way possible, no matter which combination one chooses. Finding a style of header that will fit more applications with maximum clearance possible, while providing a nice compromise between manifolds and full-length headers in terms of performance. More importantly though, is having it produced in 'off-shelf' format to cut down on costs and make it more attractive to more people. Gary
^^ thank you for the clarification! Yeah, I try to convey my points assuming nothing personal is taken and that all of us have trouble communicating things, esp. myself. Sometimes these things get out of hand. Definitely a mid length header in mind changes things. All the niche markets need this stuff, although a strategy for profit would have to warrant it.
I think you are reading gsjohnny all wrong. He does not feel he is under attack or under appreciated. He is a whole different animal, older than both of us and has done a lot with the 350. You know he has a 350 with a supercharger in a Rail and he does a lot of unconventional things like taking a Mopar intake and cutting it apart and J-Bwelding it back together to make it fit the 350. He has the Nascar rods with the Honda bearings in his motor. He has spun the engine over 8 grand and he also runs a 650 carb. He brings a lot of knowledge he just does not show it that readily. He got a bad ding on his head last year and has been having trouble ever since. That is why he does not get on here and argue with you he just does not want to use that much brain. I have talked to him on the phone on several occasions and he is full of knowledge, he just does not like to type it all out. If you want to read about what he has done go over to the Buick Performance Group website and check out his forum on the 350, he has about 10+ pages over there and it is all his posts. You should see the fabbed up supercharger he cut apart and put back together to fit the 350. Unconventional wisdom. you have already come up with an idea of the type of person gsjohnny is and I think that is not right, I think you owe an apology here.
Well since we're going down this path, his reactions to the posts herein certainly show he felt his expertise was indeed in question. Go back and reread his response. Also, past responses he's had to other posts indicate that he has felt a bit jaded/under appreciated. I may not know him on a more personal level like you do, but his responses were at least indicative of my observation that weren't entirely unfair, so I feel an apology isn't really necessary here. Though if it will get everyone off my back, then sure, an apology to everyone here, including him and you. I have not attacked him personally here, but have received attacks, yet I'm the one who owes an apology, so whatever. I know he knows and has done a lot. This was never in question. Unconventional and unorthodox wisdom is something I am no stranger to, and you'd know this if you even half-ways payed attention to even a portion of my posts here. It may be in a different way, but it's still there. If anyone here is under-appreciated, it's me, but you don't see me whining about it. I honestly do not want to argue with anyone. My sincere condolences for his injury. I'm no stranger to this either, so I can relate. I really wished there would have been more collaboration, but all I ever see are ego clashes. I'm pretty much done with it. Too much time spent here and for what... Maybe one or two people have thanked me for my efforts (I'm not making any money offering up all this knowledge and information--it was a labor of love), but mostly all I get is a bunch of **** for anything I type out, no matter how i say it, how nice I am to those who spit in my face, or try to make me out to be a liar. There, I finally whined about it. Wishing all of you well. I won't be posting much anymore (if any). That should make many of you very happy. My time and effort is better spent elsewhere. All it is, is a bunch of iron and aluminum anyway. Too obsessed with numbers and name brands. If everyone is so interested in max effort power, then they're building the wrong brand. Buick does very well, but isn't the most powerful. It's strengths were always longevity and durability, and god forbid I should suggest reinforcing this idea. Too much ego/id here for my liking, and way, waaaay too primitive. That's not intended as an insult, most of humanity is still in this phase. Don't believe me? Open your mind and take a look around you. You'll begin to see that what we thought mattered doesn't mean jack ****. You'll see that knowledge is always changing. You'll see people fighting and arguing over things that simply do not matter. What's the point? Information gets lost in a barrage of mud-slinging all because someone got butthurt. (I'm not exempt from this statement either, so don't get all huffy) As you have so eloquently put it in the past: who cares. Enjoy your car for what it is. Let it last you a lifetime and then some. That's what I intend on doing anyway. Peace Gary
Then I'm happy I didn't disappoint you. You know, if some people were to swallow some of that foolish pride they have in gross abundance and just pass around some love instead of all the hate, this place would be all the better for it. There's a lot of bitterness here. I'm not giving up on any of you yet. I've already pointed out so many things that a lot of people can't even see yet because their nose is too high in the air to notice. I'm going to give it some time to sink in real good. Instead of looking around trying to find someone or something to blame, take a long, hard look in the mirror. That's where it all begins. It's painful at first, I know. But when you can get past yourself, it's such a liberating feeling. All my points here in this thread (and elsewhere) are completely valid and relevant. The information here is as solid as the cam-grinder profiles of your typical 5,000 mile lifespan race engine cam. Denying it doesn't make it untrue. There are many here who do not wish to build 8,000 RPM engines using a mishmash of parts. I appeal to that group. There's plenty of information here on the forums (and elsewhere) for anyone who wants to build a super hot Buick 350, but what we need more of is your average build that is street-friendly and won't cost an arm and a leg to build or be worn out in a few years/thousands of miles. I also appeal to this group. We already know this build style won't make the most power (hell, even the hottest Buick 350 won't make the most power available in other brands). What it will do is have fun power. Play power. Power that won't get you killed if you mess up once in a while--being more forgiving of average driving skills (yeah I know, everyone here has guru skillz in every department, ranging from building to racing to driving). I found that the car/engine tends to be a reflection of the owner. Loud, obnoxious, testosterone driven, imposing and invasive on your senses, difficult to breathe around because of all the stench of noxious gasses, and can't deal with it for extended periods of time without going deaf or getting the adrenaline shakes. All the characteristics are there. Then when it loses a race/fight, wants to blow itself up trying to wind up higher and louder in a downward spiral of self-destruction. We're not getting any younger, you know. Why not calm down, relax, have fun and last as long as you can? (mild engine) Appreciate the history here. Love me or hate me, you can't deny that resisting reading my posts are an effort in futility. Ha. (little humor for you there) Anyways, take a toke off the peace pipe and expand your mind brother. (more humor) I bet if we all met each other in the real world and knew each other, we'd all get along a lot better than we do here on the internet (or maybe not! lol) Everyone has a point of view. Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you have to hate them. Get rid of that primitive us/them bs. The world doesn't have to make sense to you or agree with you all the time. It's been here a whole lot longer than we have, and will be here long after we're gone. It doesn't need us to figure it out in order to exist. Why not learn from it and enrich yourself? You can't please everyone, and you won't be able to reach everyone...and that's OK. Just play nice. I'm trying to do my part. Gary
