See how close spring hill is from you ,Gary. It looks like Scott guadagno has a new shop there. Scotty's performance engines. Well known for his 455 head porting skills and one fast Electra 225 .maybe he could do a 350 head to those specs or better.
thats what I want. Bolt on performance on a budget. Just curious though, what is the most hp and torque do you think could be had on my stock 73 smog motor just by swapping the smog cam for a Scottys custom ground cam and leaving the heads as is? I already have 1.75 duals and quadrajet with stock iron manifold and stock exhaust manifolds. Im looking for a figure based on 1970 testing methods.
Hard to say but without any changes but tuning and cam I would say he would make a can that would give a night dynamic compression to raise low end torque. You might she a 15hp increase with 20-35 lbs torque increase. Also jetting is lean on your carb just due to the invention of ethanol. Most fuels has 10 % at least. And your exhaust is not taking any advantage of technology. H or X balance pipes. And such small tube. The base compression is to low to do a whole lot with
Do they make that much of a difference? right now or for a long while I have been running true duals [ how I know which side the coolant is going out] I just like all the extra room I get and if need be I can drop just one side easily. [as its all straight pipe ]
Each combo is different, I have seen some cars go faster with an X pipe or H pipe and others slightly slower... On an average street car there are better places to chase HP I think...
My thought is it will help more with heavy car and those small pipes . you don't have a big gear in rear so your rpm does not climb as fast . no headers either so Alittle extra scavenging should help. Also I would get a 1800-2000 convertor . Alittle extra rpm will bring you into power range Alittle faster.
"I Think" quote of the day. The X or H pipe will smooth out the motor by helping to scavenge the exhaust gases from the other side of the engine, and more than likely will help with hp and torque maybe not much 10 hp, maybe. Add some headers to it and gain another 15, Put on a K&N Flow Control air cleaner to your Holly carb and gain another 10 Hp. Wow, a whopping 30 hp at least. That is the low side. X or H pipe is cheap additions to the car, add the air cleaner and get some more. The headers will cost a lot more but they are things you can do yourself with not much fanfare. The X or H pipe can be used later on for other upgrades like adding headers. The X pipe is actually the better piece to buy as it adds more HP than the H pipe. Buy a Flange set to be put on just before the mufflers and then you can drop the system from the manifolds or headers and at the mufflers with the flange kit. Another easy to do addition. Get a 2 1/2" system it will work better. Richard
arent the gains from those things going to be at high rpm? Would any of those things help low rpm torque like 3800 rpm or so?
Most know this, but it it always helps to keep in mind. Everything has to be related as to how it fits into the overall package. Try to think ahead as to what your moves might be well beyond what you're contemplating "for now". The exhaust upgrades make good sense because they will support a higher powered build, for later down the road. Be realistic to the fact you might use up that exhaust by the time more upgrades happen, and design it accordingly. A substandard exhaust might be worth much more than 10hp to a more serious effort. You can get away with less than ideal if you are better off diving into the engine first. As long as the vehicle is fun to use and drive, you might find yourself re-prioritizing your goals to include the car more.
You hit the nail in the head for sure. There is no doubt that one of the most important aspects to un-corking the power in almost any vehicle is the exhaust system... A good mandrel bent 2.5" system with a magnaflow or other good muffler is a safe bet to gain power whether the engine is a stock 76 smogger or a 350 hp street strip setup. As stated above each combo is slightly different and the difference between adding a straight dual, x pipe or H pipe may be -5 hp or +10 Hp depending on all the factors that makeup the combo... Any of the above 3 will work fine and not limit the overall power more than a few hp either way and each has thier advantage. There are people making 800 hp through true duals, and people making 200 Hp through fancy x pipes: The true dual exhaust has a the un mistakable sound that only a true dual can provide, many people including myself prefer the sound of a true dual. They are simple and low cost. If you have a head gasket leak or another issue it is easier to identify the side of the engine that is hurt. 2. The H pipe is perfect if you are adding to a true dual and want to uprade the system without replacing it.... You can strategically place the H pipe cross over without too much time or work. Many claim the H pipe is actually better than the X pipe for low RPM torque however this may not be true for each combo. There is no doubt that the H pipe will remove some noise out of the exhaust, which some people like and others do not like. 3. The X pipe is technicaly prefered over the others, and SHOULD give slight gains in power with most combos. Also less exhaust noise vs true dual. Draw backs are it is more complicated, more costly, and harder to add to an existing exhaust. I could not justify upgrading a nice dual or H pipe system to a X pipe unless money was not an issue, otherwise I could see other places to look for a few HP vs cutting up a perfectly good exhaust to uprade. X pipes may be in the way, so it is best to have the system setup with some bolt up flanges to make transmission and other repairs easier. A few years ago I was researching a build where Mike Wiliamson ran 11.92 in the quarter with a full weight Skylark and a mild street 350..... A lot of people bashed his time claims and said he was lying because no one else runs that fast with a mild 350. What I found when I dug deep into the combo was that it was not just what he did to make the combo work, it is that he KEPT trying different things to improve the combo. For example he had head portin done, then switched to heads done by another head porter. He tried many camshafts, 20 plus carb calibrations, different gear ratios etc. One thing he tried was different exhaust setups and he found that his car slowed down with an H pipe compared to a true dual exhaust so he removed the H pipe after adding it. To quote him he said: "we marked out a quarter mile on my road, ran the car over and over making one change at a time, and kept sneaking up on the combo... We chassis dyno tested, track tested, and worked hard to find the best combination possible for that car." As they say, your mileage may vary!
IMO with a low RPM mild cam don't waste your $$$ on an X or H pipe, but 1.75" is on the small side. I went from a 2" dual to a 2.5" X system with my mild cammed car and picked up nothing in the QM. Higher RPM with a cam with more overlap sure the X and H systems could give gains. Is it worth spending the $$ on for a low RPM torque build, probably not, probably wouldn't be enough to notice. GL Derek
and that combo info was never given either. I had 420hp and 460 tq on a rear wheel dyno using nitrous I run a full weight car 3800 with me in it, that is how I ran 11.81, now tell me how he did it with a full weight car. Richard
I did the straight pipe as it was easy to do at home in the drive way, just two 90* elbows for a turn downs off the motor [ had to open them to about 100-110 sort of point up to much ] and I used 2.25 straight pipe as you can get it in long lengths cheap. With a couple of Cherry Bomb glass packs. Again to keep everything straight and simple. quick slather of silicone on joints then a spot weld or a couple of small self tappers, I hate exhaust clamps that just deform the pipe. That run to the front of the back axle, then 2 section of cheap flex pipe to make a lazy bend tail pipe to shoot it out the sides to get the noise out from under the car.
After enough phone calls and e-mails I was able to pry the information out of Mike and compile it for my book as it is still the fastest NA 350 I know of next to Sonny Seal's 11.08 setup. I have the full specs for Mike's car but it is on one of my other computers in a word document. The basics was 10.7:1 static compression, large Poston cam, very very well ported heads, angle milled, oversized valves, ported exhaust manifolds, poston intake, modified Q jet, 4.11 gears. And lots of trial and error in a car setup to launch. There is a lot more in your combo with the chassis setup and suspension based on what we have seen other people run. Lets compare your NA runs of mid 13s using a 400 flywheel HP engine, while others are running similar times with much less power. Art was running mid 13s with a stock non rebuilt 350, no head porting, and a mild comp cam, but his chassis setup was very good, and it launched well: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?183706-I-need-ideas&highlight=13s+stock+350 Another mild 350 running 13s with far less power than you: http://www.v8buick.com/member.php?222-gscalifornia Steve running mid 13s through exhaust manifolds and mostly stock parts: http://www.v8buick.com/member.php?6727-UNDERDOG350 Mike jr running mid 12s with a very similar combo to yours except a mild roller cam: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?197839-One-HOT-350-We-re-Still-Not-Done-Either Furthermore here are a bunch of guys running mid 11s with Buick 350s, no head porting, stock sized valves etc... These engines make less than 400 HP at the crank but they get down the track well due to the chassis setup and they are slightly lighter than you run: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?215851-L-SA-at-the-Nats&highlight=13s+stock+350
Did you see Art used a 3400 stall convertor? Had trick suspension set up and he knows how to race 373 gears and 26" tires. I met the GS California guy at Salem during the 2005 GS nationals there I was going faster. I will not dispute what Steve is running with his 350 he has used some tricks on the suspension too. Mike Jr. is running a 600 lift roller cam in that car, not hardly mild. All I need to do is up the stall to 3500 and get trick springs and get rid of my 1-1/2 inch sway bars on the front and back and use a set of shocks that are more for the 1/4 mile and I can get the car into the 12's I already know that. My car is set up to handle the corners so I have no suspension movement. 0 The 11 sec Buick racers are using a 456 gear out back with about 390 hp and some high compression. So running 11's does not surprise me with that. Plus a 3400 race wt that is 400 lbs less than me that is about 4 tenths. But you would not know that since you have no car running at the track. You may not be able to get to my track but you can get to the track that is in your area. You know the one that is called Castrol Raceway right near you, now whats your excuse. Richard
so if 400lbs = 4 tenths of a scond and if a lesabre weighs 4000 thats a 600 lb difference and 6 tenths. Are you saying a LeSabre could run 11.6 in the quarter with a 390hp 350?
Usually about 100 lbs of weight taken off will net you about 1/10 in the 1/4. I see someone has you convinced that 390 hp will net you 11's in the 1/4 lol. Where are you going to shed 600 lbs from that Lesabre, TAKE THE FENDERS AND BUMPERS OFF? Plus you will need a set of 456 gears to even attempt that and about 11.1 compression. Plus you will have to go past that 212 cam if you want that much power. I would put a 455 in that Lesabre and automatically get into the 12's. The 350 doesn't have enough balls to make that car go that fast. Why do you think I tell people to use the TA intake instead of the stock one that is 50 lbs off the front of the motor. But don't ask me I don't know crap, Sean has all the answers, he is your offical 350 guru so listen to him not me. LOL. Over 500 runs down the 1/4 mile but what do I know. I will tell you, diddly squat. Richard.
There you go again smack talking in the dead of winter. LOL At least give the guy a couple months for that track to open before you start dropping the gauntlet, he just got a car that runs now he needs the right weather. Derek
