Actually this has been tame compared to some forums. And, quite informative. Thanks. The why is the 215 fits the MGB engine bay better. Trying to find a short stroke iron block solution that fits well. Hence, the crazy idea of turning a 300 into a 215 size package. "As a general rule, large bore, short stroke engines are high revving, high power engines good for road racing and circle track applications. Pro Stock racers also like this combination for drag racing as do NASCAR engine builders. Small bore, large stroke engines, on the other hand, are better for low RPM torque, street performance, towing and pulling, but have limited RPM potential." I know this is a generalization. It sorta fits for me.I have been tweaking the handling for years. It handles very well. It is not just for tooling around topless & blasting down the Interstate to travel to the annual V8Meet.The engine routinely sees 6 grand or just over when doing track days, autox, or Slaying the Dragon. That poor li'l 215 has been very good to me over the last 16 years this coming Spring. I don't need/want 300-400hp like my friends. A bit more would be nice. That is why I was looking a slight bore & stroke increase. The Chevy 302 will always have a warm spot in my heart. So, that 1.9 rod ratio is fine. In fact, my 215 has a 2.02 ratio. I have read that the high ratio also aids small intake port volumes.
Ignore the generalization regarding bore and stroke, I've already commented on that. Focus on the chassis fitment and then top end to determine your power curve. If your engine is 'too powerful' you could always slow up the linkage or something. If you are just looking for 300-400 rwhp at rpm's below what you indicate, then skip all the trickery. The heads and top end determine your power curves, as to how they relate to the cylinders below. There isn't THAT much difference when comparing the same top end on slightly different short blocks. You might move a couple degrees of cam around to suit your needs, lol. MinCSA and airspeed= peak torque and hp amounts and rpms when feeding a cylinder. The change in bore/stroke/size will shape the curve around the peaks. At your modest goals it's highly doubtful you'll have to consider things like shrouding, rod ratio, bore/stroke limitations or ANY of the mentioned attributes to a running engine and where the limitations apply. The 302's 1.9 rod ratio wasn't chosen as any type of priority, lol. They used the SAME rod they were invested making millions of, along with a really tall piston to simply fit the crank they were already tooled up for. FYI, the crazy deck and cylinder brazing stuff is what people did long before aftermarket blocks were cast with more deck height, thicker sleeves, raised cam tunnels, etc., using already long established and simple techniques. It would be highly disrespectful to bash the industry's best pioneers for not-so-long yet forgotten methods.
I used to run 215 blocks, but always had trouble with the head and main bolt threads pulling out of the block and loosening up. I've heard this is no longer a problem with the later Rover blocks but then you have liner problems. So I went to the iron block. There was one guy who bored and sleeved a Rover block for maximum bore size, IIRC he used a 4" bore in his sleeves. This meant the sleeves were wet of course so he used top-hat liners. I'm not sure what else he did but he went all the way to the dyno with it and then we heard no more about it. Did the decks pull off on the dyno? That'd be my guess. But apparently he had no difficulty with the crankcase end of the bores. Oven brazing is a well proven and refined manufacturing method that makes a joint in cast iron stronger than the surrounding metal if done right. One typical method is to incorporate a groove in the joint that hold an insert (usually just a formed wire) of brazing filler, and of course the joint is properly fluxed. Once raised to the correct temp, the filler flows out and fills the joint, even if it is a press fit, leaving a visual indicator along the seam. Parts brazed by this method are usually not separable. So the sleeves can act as the positioning devices if done this way (going through the deck). Any heat treat facility has ovens that can handle the job. It could be done in a ceramic kiln, or even a temporary kiln made using any number of methods and fired with propane. The block can be decked and bored on standard engine machining equipment, simply cut a groove in the OD of the sleeve at top and bottom for the filler wire. On the 300, I would use the largest sleeve OD that would physically fit the block, to the point of touching each other, and mill flats in the top 3rd for coolant flow. I haven't run the numbers to see what that would be but it depends on bore centers which I see is 4.240" so presumable you could have a 1/8" wall with a 4" bore and rely on the brass to fill the small gaps at top and bottom and tie everything together solidly. Might have to touch the sleeves to the belt sander on the sides just a smidge. I don't think I would trust an arc welded block that had been sawed off and reassembled. Just the cylinder welds themselves would cause machining problems. Jim
The standard bore of a 300 is 3.750" which is bigger than its stroke of 3.400". With the posted 6.450" long rods with the big end opened up from 1.976" housing bore to one that is 2.008" you can run the Honda 1.889" rod journal size, destroked the crank .090" to a 3.31" stroke for an even farther margin of bore to stroke. Doing this and you'll keep your rod ratio just below 2:1 with an actual of 1.9486:1 rod ratio, very close to 2:1. With a 3.766" bore and a 3.31" stroke you would end up with a 294.963, so a 295 cid engine. If you wouldn't mind spending the extra around $150 to have the block bored, instead of just having it honed then you can increase the bore to stroke ratio even further if that's what you want to do, you just order the mentioned pistons accordingly. Sonic testing the block would enable you to have a reference to how far you can go with the bore size. With a 3.840" bore with the 3.31" stroke you would end up with a 306.669 sbb, so like a 307cid. With the 3.84" bore being .530" bigger than the stroke. Its up to you Carl and again with sonic testing possibly even more bore?(just make sure there are good rings available for the bore size you choose) You probably wouldn't even notice the extra .583" of deck height, if you're going off of what JB's engine looks like in his car, don't because his engine has 1.228" of extra deck height(10.188" actual) than a 215/Rover block. Would be kinda like with a Skylark going from a small block to a big block with the extra deck height.(10.570" - 10.188" = .382" extra or with the older cars that get a BBB 10.57" - 9.543" = 1.027" more deck height) Just think of the sbb 300 the big block for your MGB. A lot less expensive than chop and welding or brazing, dealers choice. GL Derek
Should be several good combos, just a matter of picking one. I wouldn't try to go too big on the bore though. These engines all suffer from some core shift, some worse than others, and there wasn't a lot there to begin with. Common opinion seems to be that any block should be able to tolerate a 0.030" overbore but anything beyond that is dependent on the results of the sonic test, then it depends on how comfortable you are with how thin a wall. Jim
Yeah, that core shift is a bitch! A couple different people have told me that the sbb 300 is a thicker casting than the sbb 340/350 blocks with some of them able to go to a 4.00" bore, but of coarse sonic test before any serious over boring. And to make absolutely sure if the sonic testing says it can go that big, use feeler gauges through the freeze plug holes to measure the distance between the cylinders. No more than .055" of feeler gauge should fit between two cylinders, that would give a minimum of .090" on a non-thrust side each of the bores with the bores at 4.00" in diameter. Bore spacing of the sbb platform is 4.240" then minus the 4.00" bore size that would leave .240" now divide that by 2 and we get .120" if the cylinders were Siamese, but they are not so double check with feeler gauges after the sonic test as far as can be reached through a freeze plug hole. I have a '68 sbb 350 block that sonic tested thick enough to bore out to a 4.00" bore with some strategic boring, but the guy that I'm doing the work for wants to run boost so the block will only be bored .105" bigger.(.105" bigger because that's where good rings are available) That engine is going to be a sbb 380 from a sbb 350 block, would of been a 383 but the crank shop messed up on the crank stroke! :af: This block might be more of the exception rather than the rule because I have heard of sbb 350 blocks that can hardly handle a .060" over bore and would be hitting water if not much more than .060" over would be bored out on at least one cylinder. So I would say that sonic testing would be a good idea on any performance build. It should only cost $75 to $150 to have a sonic test done so it really doesn't break the bank or kill the budget to have one done. Of coarse for the budget minded that plan on using the mentioned pistons, if the block's bore is in decent shape then about $100 to $150 can be saved by skipping having the block bored. Measuring the deck height on all 4 corners added together and divided by 4 and order the pistons compression distance to what the answer = to so they are at or very close to zero deck and you can skip having the deck milled which would save around $150 to $250. Skipping having the deck milled you will need to use the lessor expensive composite gaskets like the perma-torque Fel-Pro blue head gaskets for a savings of $50 over using the steel shim head gaskets or even more of a savings from using an MLS one. These gaskets are .040" thick so there is your quench. If you plan on using a flat tappet cam more than likely you'll be able to re-use your factory pushrods, so by saving yourself the $$ from not getting the extra machine work done you can save around another $150 that a custom length or adjustable pushrods would cost. So adding all the savings from using the mentioned pistons you were able to save on the low side $100 + $150 + $50 + $150 = $450 - the extra $150 over just getting a re-grind it would cost to change the stroke of the crank, so a $300 savings using the mentioned pistons. Piston AND ring price, $649 - $300 = $349 for those pistons AND rings. That would break down to $249 for the pistons and $100 for the premium rings. You can justify buying a full custom piston the same way, but saving won't be as good. Pistons and wristpins for full custom = around $950 - $300 = $650 plus $150 for the same premium set of rings(because they discount the rings like the AutoTecs do) = $800 for the custom pistons and rings. Just a side note, the rings are discounted with the AutoTec pistons because not everyone looks for a bore size with good rings available so they end up with lessor expensive rings. The people that choose a bore size with the good rings available enjoy the same price with better rings because the person that had the pistons made that didn't have the better rings available paid the same price. I'm sure they don't really lose any $$, they just don't make as much on the resale I would think the way that works? And that's why I always try to say make sure you choose a bore with good performance rings available because you'll get better rings for the same price. If you destroke or pick a stroke using the 1.850" rod journal size the rods are setup to now(which should cost the same to grind) you can save the cost to have the rods big end bores opened up to the next size.(not sure what your machinist would charge, I would probably charge $10 a rod to bore just under the next size up, then they would have to be honed to size which IIRC cost about another $10 a rod so around $180 for a point of reference) The rods are buy it now for $250 or make an offer, you can probably get them for possibly a $175 offer(maybe start at $150?) plus the $50 to have them narrowed and you have a sweet set of very light and strong rods ready for your application that will handle anything that combo can throw at them for around $225. Just for comparison, ARP bolts for a sbb 300 are $72; http://taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1649 Add the cost to recon the rods $80 + $72 = $152 for inferior rods. Add on having the beams polished and shot peened and now the inferior rods are over what the for new price of $2,300 rods on sale for more than 90% off would cost. Even adding the extra cost of grinding the crank's rod journal down of $150 that would be $375 probably still less than a performance prepped factory rod, and for sure less than an aftermarket sbc rod that would still need to be narrowed as well. Lets break it down to do an entire short block with all pricing going from my CRS memory, pricing will vary form machine shop to machine shop; About $150 for remove cam bearings and freeze plugs, clean block, install cam bearing and freeze plugs. They will more than likely make you buy the TA cam bearings for them to install. Get the front grooved cam bearing from TA for them to use instaed of the front one from the bearings they source. Do all of the oil mods yourself, they are basically the same mods as the sbb 350 and BBB 455 get for their oil passages. So $150 + TA grooved front cam bearing.($16); http://taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1557S TA doesn't sell a full set for the 215/300/340 engine that I could find on their website, The sbb 350 bearings are different because they're all the same size while the other get smaller the farther in from the front of the engine you go but front one same as sbb 350. Around $100 for honing, add $50 for torque plate honing. Around $350 for crank grinding. Around $250 for main and rod bearings? $649 for the mentioned piston and ring kit. Around $225 for rods. Around $175 for balancing a bit extra to go to internal if any heavy metal is needed, may not be needed because of how much lighter piston and rod combo are if you decide to balance internally to be able to spin even more than 7,000. Dealers choice. If internal balance is chosen, then add internally balanced harmonic balancer and flywheel or flex plate. $? $316 for block machining, clean, freeze plugs, cam bearings and torque plate honing. Around $75 for sonic testing. $316 + $150 + $350 + $250 + $649 + $175 + $225 = $75 = $2,190 to do the short block externally balanced, new balancer/flywheel/flex plate, gaskets, cam and lifters, head work or assembly not included in pricing. So a basic custom pretty much bullet proof short block for just over $2,000!! :eek2if I'm not forgetting anything?) This might leave some $$ in the budget for head porting or a roller cam or both? Perhaps a custom spacers to adapt an Rover intake? Or just makes it affordable to do with a flat tappet cam, no head porting with a factory '64 4bbl? That doesn't matter because those things can be added later if you want to upgrade? I think TA sells aluminum plates machined with the sbb 215/300/340 intake port pattern to make your own intake that can probably be used as spacers to adapt a 215/Rover intake to your new sbb 300 based engine :TU:. My dinner plans were cancelled so I had a couple extra minutes. GL Derek
So if that brings us up to date on Carl's destroked project, is there anything left to add on the topic of a 300 stroked with the 340/350 crank? I built a 340 with pistons that had about a 1-3/16" compression height and 7" Scat rods using 3/4" wrist pins, giving a very light weight reciprocating assembly, good for the type of quick response that Carl is after. The 300 block with somewhat similar pistons could do the same with a rod length around 6-3/8 to 6-1/2". Either a stock rod or a NASCAR take-out should be perfectly fine there. So the question is, what makes the most sense in terms of cost, effort, and results? There are bound to be several combinations that work. It would be great if we could find an off the shelf forged piston about .050" over (3.800") with a squish land, about a 13cc dish, slipper skirt, and a compression height that matched with a suitable rod to give a zero deck. That puts us in the ballpark of 10.5:1 compression, which with aluminum heads has a chance of running on regular gas with the right cam choice. So that would be the challenge here. One that works with the stock 350 rods, and one that works with a common and cheap NASCAR rod. Maybe one for an inexpensive aftermarket rod. With those choices a 300/350 stroker would be much easier. Jim
I would not even consider a stock sbb rod at all, they are cast iron and would be around 50 to 100 grams each heavier than the rods in the link. I wouldn't trust spinning a factory sbb rod much over 6,000 RPM either and expect them to stay together. Molnar makes a H-beam stock(heavy)weight sbb 350 replacement rod that is 6.380" long that is legal for the stock class racing that is suppose to be a drop in fit for $585 IIRC. There are the $1,200 Herche rods that are in 2 different weights, one 500 grams and the other the stock weight of IIRC 650 grams with both costing the same. Here is basically ALL your forged piston choices that are 3.800"; https://www.summitracing.com/search...N=4294949512+4294914196+4294859475+4294880236 Only 5! Here is all of the off the shelf choices for a 3.800" bore; https://www.summitracing.com/search...4294949512+4294914196+4294859475&PageSize=100 67 total. Not as a popular bore size as 4.00", but the Oldsmobile pistons they used in the HRM article are in the above search. If you want to try to sift through the many other sizes close to 3.800" just click on the remove tab under Bore(IN)3.800 in, and you can scroll down on the left side expand the bore sizes and look for an off the shelf piston that may work. I'm not going to do that for you because I'm not researching a build that I'm not doing, life is to short(LOL) but by all means feel free to search through the thousands of pistons to find one that could work for you. If you do find a piston that is close to your criteria, they will more than likely need the extra $$ machine work to make them fit the block right. Like extra deck milling, over boring, wristpin bore on rods reworked and so on. I have looked through all those pistons before and everyone I have found are a compromise that needs extra work to make them fit or work. If you want an off the shelf forged set than you can order 5 custom sets of the same forged piston and they'll make a part number for them. Other than that its going to be nearly impossible to find what you're looking for off the shelf, unless there are from a different overseas source that Summit doesn't carry? Who knows, Summit doesn't sell AutoTecs so they could be out there from another source? o No: There are a couple different Ford cast press fit pistons that will work with the 350 crank and the sbb 350 rods, but the wristpin bore needs to be sleeved smaller for them to work. Going to the 350 crank in a 300 block there is still room for more stroke to use nascar take out rods that are 6.200" that some of the sets are sold with the .927" pin bore that can be easily opened to a larger size. But not sure how good a press fit only piston would work with a bronze bushing? o No: Perhaps Teflon retaining plugs can be used and leave then full floating? I have found sbc 305 forged pistons that will work, but those cost over $600 and they don't include rings plus they'll need the extra machine work. Can't remember what kind of dish volume they had, but could be a boost option for a sbb 300 stroker? For anyone with hours and hours to kill that think they can save a couple $$ with an off the shelf piston vs the linked pistons, feel free to put the time in to look. Remember the deck height is 9.543 - half the stroke - rod length = compression distance, Or deck height - rod length - compression distance = half the stroke, or deck height - half the stroke - compression distance = rod length. Happy hunting. GL Derek
I have spent hours, over the years, trying out various combinations with these calculators: https://www.uempistons.com/index.php?main_page=calculators I am starting to think the cheapest, easiest route is a low mileage LS4. :eek2:
Throwing in a used engine rather than building one is usually always the cheaper route, not sure if it would be the easiest route though. o No: What about a 4.6L Rover engine? Not sure if that is the same platform as the 215 they bought from Buick all those years ago though? Dealers choice, as long as you're happy with the results. GL Derek
Without a friendly connection to machines....Buicks aren't the easiest or cheapest. Any engine is as capable as you need to make it.
Something I have been meaning to do is look through the piston and ring kits from Summit, so while I was thinking about the 2nd piston I looked at were these; https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb186ktm-020/overview/ Would need a stroke of 3.32 and a nascar take out rod that is 6.450" long with the sbc pin size(if you can find some? or some sort of piston bushing to use the smaller .787" wristpins?) and you can save another $153 for using these KB off the shelf hypereutectic pistons over using the AutoTecs. Can also skip milling deck and boring cylinders, will just need honed to 3.756", but not sure how much bushings would cost for pistons and would need new .787" wristpins. These would work with a stroked sbb 300 crank to 3.540" with nascar take out rods that are 6.200" long with a sbc .927" wristpin, a little easier to find than the longer ones; https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb145ktm-020/overview/ These would save $201 but would leave them .012" in the hole to either live with or have deck milled? And are not forged pistons if anyone cares, but would mean less tolerant to higher RPM. Some more with the same as the above compression distance but are for a 3.776" diameter; https://www.summitracing.com/search...4294914195+4294882392+4294861280&PageSize=100 Here is a forged 3.776" dia with a 1.433" compression distance piston and ring set with a 10cc dish; https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-ic834ktd-040/overview/ To bad they cost $128 more and need the same attention the above 1.433" C/D pistons need. More of the same sbc 305 pistons @ the 3.796" size with the same compression distances as well. There is also a used sbb 300 engine route if the budget is tight. But a low mileage LS9 would be even better! Derek
Not sure what exactly you mean by this. Plenty of cast pistons are living at 7000 rpm. Piston design has more to do with that. So does actual piston speed. Are you meaning, "less tolerant of combustion mishaps" or detonation? Obviously when we're talking about 'performance' and there's an investment to the engine, a cast piston is often a risk anyways.
Obviously my solution was to buy custom pistons. Venolia is neither the cheapest nor the most expensive but they do have a good reputation and make a nice piston. I have no worries about a blower equipped engine with a 7 grand redline. But how hard would it be to build a 300/350 to compete costwise with the more common engines used in swaps? That build with the Olds 307 pistons would be such an engine. I forget what rods that used though. They weren't the 350 rods though were they? So if the 350 rods were used a different piston would be needed. So OK, yes 350 rods are heavy and cast, fine. Also good for 6K or a little better. Fair enough, name a rod about the same length that does not require machining either of the rod or of the crank in order to use it that can be had for anything south of $400 a set. Bear in mind please this thread was for engines for the MGB. Most people who own MGBs do so because they were able to buy them cheaply. That is an important consideration. Occasionally someone might spend $5K on an engine, extremely rarely more than that. Most would like to keep their cost below $2000 or even $1500 if possible. Many use a junkyard engine. So if you could pick up a 300 and a 350, combine them with a few more parts and have a decent street engine some would go for that. But like I said before, it'd depend on the pistons. If nobody has a clue what piston they should use for that, fine. Eventually someone will figure it out. Not my job either but I thought I'd raise the question as it's kind of an interesting challenge. The idea is more to avoid letting feature creep run the price up and instead find ways to bring the price down. By the time you buy NASCAR rods, narrow them, and grind the crank to run them you've priced yourself out of the average budget. Now if you found a factory forged piston for instance that was usable and could be bought for around $400 a set, a fair number of people would spring for that. $600 sets of rods and pistons is not something the average owner will go for even though it is a bargain. For the owner who wants a race engine, OK. But most do not. Consider a moment what 300 hp in a 2400lb car means. What 400 hp means. About like 600hp in your GS. So it really doesn't have to be a race engine. And an engine that is less highly stressed usually lasts longer and is more reliable. A stroked 300/350 can be an understressed engine and still give insane performance in an MGB. That's really the whole point. Jim
I'm certain more combos could be found that combine off the shelf parts with some clever use of machining that would already be in the budget. I add those research costs right into builds when I take those on, so it's far from cost effective. I'd rather see expensive shop time go into better quality parts instead. The best shops capable of top shelf work usually don't farm out machining ops a-la carte and leave their reputation up to a garage assembler or use their resources to get the thrifty parts hoarder good deals along the way to saving up enough for a complete engine... So, the catch 22 is that the owner is left with the R&D burdens, including time and any risks along the way, with the assumption that their 'engineered' specs were followed to a T, that those are going to work, the engine will operate perfectly, and on top of all that...cheaply! :shock::shock: If someone without the resources, capability or know how wants a champion...they could lend their wife to have one bred. :moonu: There's always a cost.
I bumped the 300 stroker in an MG thread to the top and here is a link to the tread; http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?292480-Buick-300-stroker-in-an-MGB He used Ford off the shelf pistons and sbb 350 rods that had sleeves installed in the wristpin bores, I believe the pistons are listed in the thread. So I broke down what it costs to use the nascar take out rods, I'll break down what it takes to do a basic sbb 300 short block rebuild; Crank re-grind, $200 Clean, R&R cam bearings and freeze plugs, $166(I need to correct the other post because of CRS memory) With the extra $16 for the front TA cam bearing. Sonic testing around $75. Bore and torque plate hone block for junk "stock" destroked replacement .030" over pistons, $250 Crappy junk "stock" replacement pistons, $193; https://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-1110p30/overview/ Another around $45 for rings Around $30 to press pistons off and press new ones on. These pistons will be .048" in the hole, destroked at least .020" assuming that a rebuild will get the deck milled at least .020" when rebuilding. So to get the engine to run like it is supposed to the deck needs to be milled so the pistons are .020" in the hole so when the .020" thick steel shim head gasket is used there will be .040" of quench distance when using the steel shim head gaskets that cost $50 more than the Fel-Pro composite gaskets. If the General left extra deck height on the sbb 300 block like they did on the sbb 350 block, milling an extra off of the deck over .030" will add another around $100 to get the pistons up so it doesn't run like a turd after it is assembled. Lets just say another $150 for deck milling with a chance to have to spend another $100 if more than .030" needs to be removed, which with the "blueprint" spec, .028" will already need to be removed. Steel shim head gaskets are $50 more than the fel-pro blue composite gaskets. The factory rods reconned with ARP bolts, $152.(polishing beams and shot peening is extra, around $150 but we won't add that in) Around $250 for bearings. Balancing around $175. New custom pushrods because the factory ones are to long now because the deck was milled, $150 So add it all up, $200 + $166 + $75 + $250 + $193 + $45 + $30 + $150 + $50 + $152 + $250 + $175 = $1,736 - the corrected total for the custom engine short block build of $2190 - $1,736 = $454 extra for the custom version that would run twice as good. And that is without adding any extra deck milling if needed, another $100, performance prepping the rods, another $150, corrective head or intake milling if the extra needs to be removed from deck, another $150 which is a total of $400, so the custom engine can be as little as only an extra $54 more than a "stock" rebuild. o No: Not sure why so many people get sticker shocked when seeing what the actual costs to rebuild an engine is, and of coarse the machining costs above are from my CRS memory so those costs will vary from machine shop to machine shop but should be very close. Those costs did not include cam & lifters, timing chain and gears, oil pump or gaskets for building a short block.(a short block is an engine that is assembled without heads, or intake) A complete "stock" rebuild adding in all the parts I skipped is around another $500 to $1,000 depending on what's needed and or wanted. That does NOT include any maintenance items like plugs & wires, caps and rotors, distributor upgrades, oil & oil filters, stuff like that is all extra. So even a "stock" type rebuild for just about any v8 engine will cost around $3,000 to get in and running, if it is owner built and owner installed. Still less than a "crate motor" unless you get the 150 HP Mexican sbc long block for $1,500, but still needs everything from intake and above and water pump and beyond as well as all of the maintenance items. Of coarse it can be done for less skipping some of the machining that should be done with the "stock" type pistons. You can save $150 for not having the deck milled, $50 if you use the fel-pro blue gaskets, without the deck milling the factory pushrods can be re-used, another $150. Just a few corners that can be cut, but this path ALWAYS leads to disappointment! I have seen this path taken to many times with guys that rebuild a sbb 350 and they wonder why their engine runs like a 6.8:1 compression turd that they built, weaker than before the rebuild. You tell them why and its like talking to a wall that can't comprehend the answer and just insist that there is no way the engine can run any better and they say they will not spend another penny on it to make it right. They say they think they should of just went with a BBB 455 in the first place. LOL When they were building the engine like a turd they were told not to expect much. Anyway, those weren't any of my engine builds, but they were ones that I read about here on v8. What sucks as well is installing a used engine and have it fail, I read a lot of those threads here as well. Then their deal on a BBB 455 needs to be rebuilt anyway. LOL If the car is in good shape a nice running rebuilt engine added in should only add to the value of a classic or sports car and or classic sports car. How much depends on the car I would imagine, and how much the person that test drives/rides it likes how it runs is willing to pay to own it? But to me it would be all about how I wanted MY car to run and drive and I'm not into junkyard engine swapping so something I think is cool would be going into MY car. I don't buy a car like that thinking about resale, I buy a car like that to drive how ((I)) want to drive and enjoy it. GLTA Derek
I don't remember what Chris' build cost came out to if he did mention it, but his parts prices were pretty good. Big hit on having the mains turned down but otherwise right in line with a standard (cheap) rebuild. 10:1 compression with those Ford Courier pistons, 350 rods and the 350 crank is a pretty darned good combination it seems like to me, and might be hard to top, for the money. The only downside seemed to be having to bush the rods to match the wrist pins. Pretty thin bushings though. Reaming the piston pin bores might have been another possibility. I totally get the reasoning behind the aftermarket rods, and NASCAR take-outs are a boon to the creative engine builder. But just like you can buy those rods for a couple hundred bucks and then only have to shave them down and offset grind the crank to get the most out of them, an ebay set of recon 350 capscrew rods for $120 is a pretty decent deal, considering you could just slap 'em in and use 'em. That's not what Chris did, but there's no reason in the world why you couldn't. In fact, his biggest expense was turning down the mains. If a guy had the use of a lathe he might do the rough part of that ahead of time and get that part down around $50 or less. Some corners make sense to cut and some don't. Jim
