For a #'s 70 GS 3 speed HD muncie, small block, floor shifted car I have a NOS 3 speed shifter that carry the same #'s as the original 70 455 3 speed shifter shown. The only difference being the shifter handle and the lower shift/rod arms. 1) Will the lower arms on the NOS shifter work, or do I need to swap over the 455 shifter arms? 2) Will the 4 speed muncie mounting bracket work on this 3 speed unit, or do the 3 speeds have there own bracket? 3) Anyone have the correct #'s for the shifter rods? These are the shifter rod part #'s included in the kit......first/reverse #4209........2nd/3rd #4210.....1st/reverse (arm) #7144 This kit has saginaw bracketry.
You ask a tough question there. I thnik its gonna be up to you to experiment. However, after looking at the two shifter blocks, I gotta ask why you'd want to use the older levers. I believe the nicer unit will have a much shorter throw. I had a Sag three speed here. I swear it had the same bracket bolt pattern on the tailshaft as a four speed, but my memory could be fuzzy. If you can't find the right rods, they can be altered. You can heat and bend them, or custom weld lengths. But, you must quench them immediatley to harden them. I know were my old Sag three speed is, if I can I'll grab it and look. Good Luck!
BOnoP. I don't have the answers but my advise would be to call Dave Kleiner. He has been working on reproducing the 4-speed components and also has an original 70 Stage 1 3-speed convertible, so he may be able to check out all the differences between the parts. The one thing I do know is that the 70 buicks with 3-speeds used a cast iron muncie 3-speed trans, but I don't know how the saginaw bracketry will work with that trans. Hope this helps. Duane
ttt (need to subscribe to this thread)-just got a 69 3-speed in bits and it looks like the shifter mount is different from my 70, but both are not original so I have no idea what is right!
The one thing I do know is that the 70 buicks with 3-speeds used a cast iron muncie 3-speed trans, but I don't know how the saginaw bracketry will work with that trans. Hope this helps. Duane[/QUOTE] I tried the saginaw mounting bracket today, its way too long. The saginaw tranny must have a longer tail then the muncie. It appears the 69 stage 1 shifter bracket doesn't match up either. I looked in an illustration manual, an it looks to be a different mounting bracket all together for the 3 speed shifters. The 69-70 3 speed shows a shifter support bracket under group #4.010, and the 4 speed shows # 4.030, but when looking through those sections, there's no support listed, at least in my book BTW, Thanks for your responce's Here's a picture of the saginaw bracket Here's the thread that has a photo of the muncie.......post #15 http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=114766
Maybe give Bob Gibbs(Gransportsedan) a holler. I know he has a 65 tranny and shifter so maybe he can shed light on it,but they could be a whole different ballgame too. Worth a shot though.
the shifter bracket you show is an adapter bracket for the early cars equipped with a borg warner 3 speed. I have a cast iron Muncie 3 speed and i used a shifter bracket off a 67 GS 4 speed car. i believe a shifter bracket from a 67-72 4 speed car will work.
I called Hurst directly and found out they no longer make any parts for Muncie 3 speed shifters. they dont even have parts listings for them anymore. I bought 2 NOS 3 speed shifters off Ebay and was able to make up what i needed for my project. my transmission is from a 1970 vehicle and my shifter style would be correct for a 70's vehicle as well.
Looks like we have the same set-up basically. The tranny in this 70 gs is factory 3 speed muncie as well. The drivetrain is all #'s matching, but didn't come with the shifter itself, so Im trying to adapt this 69 NOS shifter to work. I appreciate the photo's, very helpful. 1 question though, is your 1st/reverse arm in the right spot??
Thats a good question. I didnt have any of the correct rods and i had to rework the one you see on the first/reverse arm. the other arm needs to have the excess cut off. i dont know what the purpose of the funky shift arm is but it doesnt suite my taste the way it is so i'll be modifying it.
Here's how I seen them set-up Its supposedly correct, but obviously the backdrive arm to the steering column isn't going to match up, so I need to find the correct 1st/reverse arm for this application
I believe the funky 1st/reverse arm doesn't work for my application, due to this being a hurst floor shift conversion kit, and my 70 is a factory floor shift. The buick illustration guide shows a completely different set-up for my application. I think it might work for your application being your car wasn't a floor shift??? I dont know if you can use any of this info, but I found the original instructions, here ya go
All those parts you show in the picture look good except for that top bracket which is correct for the 4 speed, but different from the 3 speed The 3 speed shows the same group # 4.040 but a different bracket????????? The shifter support bracket is different as well Here's a 69-70 4 speed set-up
wow.... my 72 service manual didn't have anything on a 3 speed floor shift trans only 3 on-the-tree and 4 speed uzzled: AHHHH.... I see you have a 69 4 speed you should have those parts in the pic on your car....o No:
the back drive is also the same for 69 Cutlass/442....I have a 69 Olds service manual and noticed the different trans mounting bracket :Brow: :shock: Damn stuff is hard to find :shock: most was tossed years ago...:spank:
Actually the equalizer rod isn't even correct for a 3 speed floor shift, as seen in the photo, there's a 90 degree bend towards the tranny on the original linkage Im starting to get pissed none of my buick illustration, and chassis manuals seem to match when it comes to the 3 speeds
It's hard to tell what they used....the parts in that pic are the same as what was in the trunk of my 69 :shock: who knows what it had...o No: uzzled: when I put the 4 speed back in I'll probably just fabricate something :shock: If you get some time can you take some shots of what your 69 has.....:beers2:
