Saturday JULY 30th www.musclecarrace.com IS greg going to be the only Buick again this year?? Granted he did win the F.A.S.T event, but can we see more Buicks??
2005 Northeast Factory Stock and Fast Drags Class Drag Race Saturday July 30th, 2005 Englishtown, NJ www.musclecarrace.com Basics are: This DAY is open to MUSCLECARS ONLY from 1960-1974. No Hondas, No Toyotas, No other types of cars. ALL 4 Tires should be near the same size No Headers No Aftermarket Parts (there are a few exceptions, please read rules twice) You must have an pre- 1974 ENGINE BLOCK, no aftermarket engine blocks. No Strokers in Factory Stock Class YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A NUMBERS MATCHING CAR TO ATTEND!!! There is NOW a class to accomidate cars with headers and other mods. This is NOW a full muscle car day only event. FULL Peoples Choice Car show provided by www.LongIslandChevelles.com
As a side note, we wil have a dyno shop that is bringing out a portable dyno, that you just drive up on (only 18" high) and they can tell you , HP / TQ / Air fuel ratio or you can do a full 1/4 mile simulation run! Should be cool. There is also a people's choice award car show, thats looks to be a good event as well. I know those guys also, and I think they can pull off a nice car show complete with trophies. Also any of you car show guys, that take a pass down the track will get a Photo OP with one of our awesome trophy girls.
Sounds good Bill. Looking forward to it! Thanks for making the effort to put this race on again this year. Organizing a race like this takes a lot of effort and us northeasterners really appreciate it. :TU:
Yeah, too bad it conflicts with the Olds Nationals in Norwalk. Vermont is gorgeous this time of the year. :ball:
True Dave, true, it is too bad. My conflict among others is that after reading the rules the '64 is not legal. Oh well. o No: As a matter of fact your car isn't legal either, neither is Casey's, neither is Tim Clary's, neither is Jimmy Johnston's, neither is............... All legal for Stanton Martin and Dayton though. :TU:
Nope. Under "Cylinder heads" it says: "In all cases compression must be under 11.5" Mine is 12.1, Jimmy's is over 11.5 among others. Under "Block" it limits overbore to .060" Casey's Olds is .068", among others Under "Ignition" it says no MSD and also no rev limiters. Dave typically runs an MSD and a rev limiter, Tim runs a rev limiter, among others. For years it lists 1960 to 1975. So paul Richards can't run his '57 Vette. You could run a '60.......but not a '59...practically the same car but. I just don't understand why folks change the over 10 year developed and established P/S rules. Unchanged folks could run at all these stock events without confusion. o No:
It's all good Brian C'mon, do you think anyone's going to make you remove your heads and check to make sure your engine's not bored more than .060"? :spank: :laugh: I don't know how Gonzo hashed out these rules but as long as you're within the spirit of them, I'm sure you'll be fine.
Brian I am assuming you have visited the page before, so it is possible you are looking at a cached version of the website. Maybe you could clear the cache and look again You are correct about the .060....but as Mike said, this is a limit that is really un-enforceable unless you have an obvious ringer. Its a general rule that is meant to try to keep to a guideline. The No MSD rule I changed last year!! When it was brought to my attention that some of the top competitors have hidden MSD's. In fact I believe it states somewhere on there that MSD's must be hidden. The compression rule was also changed a short while ago after a ZL1 partcipant brought that to my attention. -------------------------------------------- There has to be SOME rules obviously for new Factory Stock participants to abide by. And I think the rules are fairly liberal. Any one who has participated in Certified Pure Stock events would be more than welcome with minimum tech involvement most likely needed. In this area (the Northeast) that I am trying to promote this class to, The possible participants have a difficult time enough with the " No Headers " rule. You more experienced race drivers are the LEAST of my tech concerns. You are all more then welcome. I am trying to make the event a fun, well organized, ego-less good time. If you are into that, then this is your race.
Just so you understand, here is an email I got today from a local participant: "What class could I run ?? My motor is a 464 with KRE heads and TH400... I don't have a way to cap headers and run through the exhaust either.. I do have a set of the round shorty mufflers but I was told they have to be two chambers at least ??!! Can I run slicks ? Thanks for asking." Fortunately for this guy the answer is YES he could STILL run in the Muscle Car Bracket class, since he is obviously not Factory Stock, nor FAST for that matter. Brian , In other words, YOU don't have a tech problem in factory stock.......he does.
No I do not think that. Things like my compression and Casey's overbore are documented public information though....there is no question, not legal for this event. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=68090&page=1&highlight=certified Rev limiters are talked about freely on this forum which is another form of documentation. They are legal at the three "other" stock races run this year though. Same rules at each event, no confusion. I understand getting folks into the P/S mindset is difficult and I don't want to hinder this event at all. I guess I don't see how writing rules that are contrary to existing, developed, successful P/S rules is a benefit. o No:
Brian: I just went back to review your differences on the site: The compression rule is 12 to 1 or less The overbore rule is .060...again you have to have some sort of rule, if it were .080 really doesn't matter much MSD are allowed. And most use a 6AL with the built in rev limiter. Legal So what big rule difference am I missing from your observations??
I am agreeing with you that "you have to have some sort of rule" and point out that by not adopting rules used by three other races this year, there are established cars that are not legal. That's all.
Ok cool brian, no problem ---------------------------------------- For those who are now lost: for the July 30th race at E-town (factory stock rules) If you have 12 - 1 compression you are legal If you have an MSD you are legal If you have .060 overbore you are legal (In fact lets change this rule to .080 ) Ok done, its now .080 So now Everybody is happy :beer ----------------------------------------- See no problems here, just trying to have a fun get together.
You can leave it blue or carbon fiber for my shootout! Check it out at Musclecar Grudge Match.com The way I look at it is, it's all about stock appearing from the outside musclecars racing headsup with a really close ETing car. So, if Joe Bloe can't afford to build a stroker with a roller cam, mega ported heads and he has to "squeeze" his car to run respectable, that's fine by me, because the fact is, if you or I run into him at a stop light and he spanks us, there's nothing we can say, BUT, if we spank him, he's the one that looks silly. :beer I want to recreate street racing and not NHRA every trick in the book$$$$$$ Stocker racing. I'm with Gonzo, it's about having fun and not having to hire NHRA to tech the cars!!! Wayne
Hey Wayne how are you? Was a pleasure meeting and talking with you at MusclePalooza. Love that car of yours man.....an awesome runner. Good luck with your race. ------------------------------------ Just so there is no confusion.....July 30 th at E-town www.musclecarrace.com has no Nitrous, it is similar to the Pure Stock/FAST events run elsewhere. ( If I could just get people to read?!#@!) ----------------------------------- Wayne is running a race as well, with much more liberal rules than a factory/pure stock/FAST event. I believe Wayne is also trying to keep the fun dial up at his event, which always makes for a good time. Good Luck Wayne
Do they sell beer in Oklahoma? I may be enticed. :laugh: I don't think Brian is trying to give anyone a hard time here, he's just wary of rules that vary, or aren't enforced, or at worst, having to spend $$$ to change the car to a different configuration for a particular race, then change back for the primary venue it was built for. PSMCDR rules are established and like them or not, they work. They also don't vary from race to race or get changed due to weather, etc. Nearly everybody would like to change something in the PSMCDR rules For example, I hate the sportsman tree which generates a high amount of red lights and tends to enhance the sandbaggers into not trying to cut a light since they have a faster car and can run down the slower (MPH) car for the win with no risk of tire spin. I've lost my last two races at Stanton to cars that qualified same et, but were 6 and 8 MPH faster than I. After getting blown off the track in the first round each time, I was forced to push the tree. Worked one time (he couldn't catch me)and went to the third round; other time I redlighted with a .496 on the second round, but he'd had never caught me on that run. Most of us have had bad experiences with rule "negotiations" and "variations" at other races, but never at the original PSMCDR and its direct spinoffs. The problem with that, though, is the only race that seems to get enough cars (and spectators) with that set of rules is the original race in September at Stanton. Even a duplicate race by the same people at the same place last year in June didn't work out and may have even affected the Fall race turnout. I realize I'm wandering into dangerous territory here, but I also fully support the other races, and think they need to look at what it'll take to get more people into this and make it a viable effort financially as well as geographically. I personally don't plan to change anything on my blue car to comply with anything other than PSMCDR rules (after spending a king's ransom this year to "correct" the intake issue on my car), but I also have two other cars. One of which will be a PSMCDR car, another which wouldn't even come close to those rules. I really like Wayne's "run what you brung" concept as long as there are 2/3 match races for those of us that don't have the fastest cars. Make sure you keep the breakout limits (use the 0.3 sec and 3 MPH, it works) , add in the 0.5 protree to limit the qualification sandbaggers, and I think you'll have a whole lot of fun. Stock appearing, not too noisy (except Studebakers.. :spank: ) Tech the safety and appearance items. OK, Brian, hammer away again. I'll have my grandson send you another response. :laugh: :bglasses: We've been down this road before. I agree that if you're going to have some performance restrictions on the cars themselves, then where do you start, or stop? Might as well use PSMCDR rules and take your chances with the turnout (and start looking for some deep pocket sponsors). Don't limit the cars, limit the sandbagging, bring more people into it, and above all, have fun. :3gears: :3gears: :3gears:
