I was looking at the online Super Car Shootout "Stock Appearing" rules. The online version is for 2010. Is this the class you are looking at running? Would Steve Casola and Joe Accardi be the ones that need some Buick competition? Paul
They have great looking cars. I was also looking over the rules and it looks like there are no restrictions on internal engine mods. However this one changes things a bit. 6.01 Camshaft must produce a correct stock sound at idle. Engine idle noise level will be checked using Radio Shack Meter 33-2055 Set on Filter C, Slow response. Engine Idle will be measured @ 1000 RPM's in neutral or park, standing 3 Ft. away from the back bumper at waist height, the car in question must not exceed 108 Dba on the said meter. I ran into this similar situation on the engine build in Zurich Switzerland where the car must sound like stock in order to pass inspection. The solution is to have a cam with zero degrees of valve overlap by grinding the cam with a very wide LSA. So we had TA make a 288-96 with a 118 degree LSA. With such a wide lobe angle the intake valve closes late enough to have an 11:1 compression ratio and still use pump gas . In your case the wide LSA would work out well since you will be using stock exhaust manifolds.<o></o> The 350 factory manifolds don’t offer much in the way of exhaust gas scavenging and create backpressure at higher rpm so it is better to have less valve overlap.<o></o> Gessler will need to hog them out as much as possible to reduce backpressure.<o></o> I’m wondering if there is a better year design for 350 exhaust manifolds or are they all the same? Anyway you end up with a smooth torque curve without an exaggerated peak, just the opposite of a Thumpr cam. I really would like to make power to 6500 rpm or more but it is tough to have the duration needed and have a smooth idle. Using a high lift roller cam will definitely help with the power band Paul <o></o>
The rules are there for guys who want to be Certified. Ralph is not a hooligan about the rules for guys who just want to come down and race for the day. If you are running 11.69 and better you need to Certify the car to the rules and they will expect your car to strictly fit the peramiters of the rules. A guy like me who will compete but not Certify his car (14.xx > 12.xx), the rules are a little flexible. As long as you are making efforts to bring your car into compliance you can run. The former owner of my car put a cowl induction scoop on the hood. We all know that was not a stock item. As long as I am not running away with the competition, no one will really complain. Everyone knows it's $1000 to buy a new hood, have it paint matched etc. etc. Eventually I will get the proper hood on there, Rlaph and the other guys know that-they also understand it takes time to find one and get it done. The group likes to compete but it's more of a relaxed competition if you catch my drift. If you look at the "Pure Stock" section on this board (See the Dave Dudek Pure Stock thread), other groups that compete, guys cry because someone figured out how to make their car go faster than the other guys car and still be within the rules. It's kind of pathetic. As long as you're giving your best effort to be stock appearing, no one will turn you away- You will always be welcome, that's my kind of group. Its just the obvious things they want you to change- headers, ladder bars, fiberglass parts (like my hood) etc. etc.
OK Great! Then we can go with a cam that has around 10 degrees of overlap with a moderate lopy idle and get the duration we need to make power. Do you think Ralph would be OK with the TA aluminum intake manifold if you painted it to look like the factory intake? Is this class a heads-up or dial-in? Paul
So you run a cam with 118 l/sep to soften the idle and and makes things sound nice and smooth Now you run exhaust manifolds, which dont want to run well upstairs anyways ,and the thing is a turd because by the time you get up on the cam the manifolds are long done for Or you can cam it like it wants,needs, which is tighter l/sep angle for a small block,let it make peak power up to 5500 rpm or so which is where it will want to go anyways with the intake choices you have,and shift it at 6000 or so and let it be what its going to beray: Engines that are built with wide lobe centers(even engines with GOOD FLOWING HEADS AND INTAKES) esp those with weaker FACTORY heads and intakes run poorly anyways,so i ask why crutch them even more with out of line cam timing Look at every hard running N/A sb on this site and they all have cams with tight lobe centers~ Id be willing to bet some of the BB on this site with rediculously wide lobe centers would pick up a bunch if they got rid of then old man cushy idle mentality and tighten up the l/c a bit :TU: I think too many folks build a motor with the intent usage of stock manifolds, instead of building the motor the way it should be, and oh by the way it happens to be running manifolds ! Id rather give the motor what it wants ,and let the manifolds hurt what they are going to hurt anyways Good Luck
Nick I agree. Sometimes the rules get in the way. Now that we know that there is some leadway on idle quality the LSA can go back to the 112 area. And thanks for the exhaust manifold reply. Unfortunately there is no leadway there. Factory iron exhaust manifolds only. Paul
Yes factory manifolds (God I'd love to throw a set of headers on). I would say (and this is a good old rule) the car should be able to idle with a glass of water 2/3 full sitting on the air cleaner and not make a wet mess. So a "Window Rattler" type cam won't be good. Lopey, healthy, ballsy, or any term that suits will be ok. I'll tell you. I really like the T/A 290-94. I haven't checked the DCR on it, but at first glance I think it might be the one if I am running a true 10-10.5:1 forged piston.
Tony Do you mean putting the 290-94 in the engine you have now or the engine you intend to use to kill Mopars. The 290-94 which is on a 110 lobe center for the 350 will let you go up to 10.5:1 compression ratio. If you want some margin for pump gas octane then stay around 10.2 to 10.3. Paul
This is a nice cam but you must remember that the car must sound stock. Now a TA-C118 cam / KB 118 cam would work really well for what you are wanting to do. This is an old NHRA cheater cam for the NHRA stock class racing. IE stock intake, heads, exhaust, valve train, suspension, tires. you get what I am saying. The wide 118 LSA allows you to run 10.25 comp motor. This cam will idle smooth, pull good vacuum. Everyone will tell it lacks on the bottom end below 2000 rpms it is a mushy but I that is so it can launch your vehicle hard with out blowing the tires off and at the end of the 60ft marker come on like a freight train and pull hard all the way to 6000 rpms. Remember you are launching a fairly heavy car with small tires and stock suspension. The wide LSA helps soften the shock to the tires so that you can hookup instead of smokin them up on the launch. Here is a link to my 68 Special with a SBB 350 running a KB 118 cam with all stock internals. My heads and intake have been modified and I am running headers nowadays since I retired this engine to my 70 skylark as a street sleeper. I am putting out 400+RWHP. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxIJILIkz1E
So your normally aspirated stock bottom ended 350 with what compression ratiop makes 480hp at the crank? What et does it run?
For your low comp engine use a TA 212 cam and when you build your good engine get a custom ground cam from supreme efi on the board here.
Compression is just over 10.1. When I had this motor in the 68 it would turn 11.90's all day long. I should have been able to turn better times but was having launch problems.
