So I just got this 455 back together and running after it sitting with the radiator out for 5 years and the heads off for the last year...ou: I put in a brand new aluminum radiator with 2 each, 1" cores that's been sitting in a box for a couple of years. New hoses all around...I used to use the Prestone extended life coolant (the orangeish stuff), but in the new system I went back to good old green basic 2-year antifreeze. After running the engine a couple of times but not driving the car, I drained the coolant to swap the 160* thermostat for a 180* t-stat, and this is what was in the bottom of the bucket o' coolant after I poured it off into jugs to put back into the car: Chunks of gelatinous "stuff" that will easily turn into an oily jelly between your fingers, along with some dirt debris. Should I be freaking out or not? I think I'll pull the radiator back out and backflush it with a water hose, just in case...
Is it possible there is a chemical reaction between the orangish antifreeze and the greenish antifreeze? This sort of thing used to happen with different brands of oil.
Seems that's what happened. A lot of folks are finding out that the two types of antifreeze are incompatible with the same results. Afraid I don't know details, just that others are complaining about similar problems. Devon
Thats exactly what happened. Dexcool or the typical "orange antifreeze" is definately and positively NOT compatable with the typical ethylene glycol "green" antifreeze. There are some orange antifreezes that advertise that they are compatable with ALL types but its risky business mixing different types. :Smarty:
If it gets hot enough, any antifreeze can gel up. It's going to take some cooling system cleaner to really get it out. Back flushing with a hose isn't going to work, IMO.
i would pull the coolant hoses , the rad, the water pump + thermostat and the heater hoses. Using a gardern hose, flush the rad, and the block . then flush the heater core. i did this shortly after i purchased my gs in 2000 and u should have seen the "mud" that was flushed out!
I don't know if its the same with cars as it is with the big trucks (Freightliners) but we have been seeing a gel like substance on the coolant filters and I am told its the coolant having a reaction to the flux material from when the radiators are built. Dont hold me to that in your case but once we change that first coolant filter on the truck, the problem goes away. If down the road another radiator is installed, the problem could and will more than likely reoccur until the filter is changed again.
I usually remove both plugs on the sides of the block and leave a pressurized garden hose in the top of the radiator. I let that run for at least half an hour with the engine running. If it's in there is should come out.
Well, I broke down and ordered the high-speed TA water pump (my wife told me to, she said "it's probably still cheaper than a Honda water pump - not that we have a Honda, but how cool is she?). It'll be here later this week, I'm planning on pulling the radiator and back washing it, and pulling the thermostat, putting the neck back on with a water hose hooked up to it, and back washing the block with the water pump off, while pulsing compressed air into the bypass on the t-stat neck to add some agitation - I'm thinking that'll clean it out pretty well. And I'm never ever again going to even think of even looking at anything other than green EG coolant. Cheaper and easier to swap it out every two years and not worry about it.
If that is the high flow at low rpm pump it is well worth the price. Solved my overheating problem in traffic. My wife is cool too to put up with the "hobby". She pumped the brake pedal today while I was at the bleeders.
The new pump should be here by this weekend, so I figured I'd go ahead and give the system a good flush. The gurus over at bobistheoilguy.com like the Mercedes Benz Citric Acid flush, so I figured I'd give it a shot here and see what it does to the block (new alum radiator). Using this basic process (http://dieselgiant.com/mercedes_citrus_flush.htm) I hooked a hose up to a hot water heater outlet (the heater tank drain will only run hot water until the cold starts refilling the tank, then you get cold since it sinks to the bottom of the tank where the drain is) and got me a steady supply of 150* water. :grin: Put a catch bucket under the radiator drain, and instead of opening the petcock I just removed it each time. I'm thinking that if I ever do this again I'm going to look into fitting a ball valve of some sort to the radiator just to speed/simplify things. I found that I could pull the radiator drain, run the hose into the radiator neck, and run the engine at the same time. With the thermostat removed, this is a really fast way to clear out the system. Just BE CAREFUL not to starve the engine for water, and keep an eye on the temp gauge!!! Having a helper is a huge plus here. Also, once I got the coolant out I parked over some grass that needs some watering, as this uses quite a bit. My temp gauge spent almost the whole time on 150*, the highest it got was just under 160 while the Citric Acid was circulating and I ran it for 15 minutes at 1800rpm. Basically, here's the drill: Drain the existing (new, sniff sniff) coolant, then flush the system. Then refill with hot water, and flush again, and then again until the chunks and carp stop coming out, then do it again once more for Mama. Check the bottom of the catch bucket each time (I was surprised at the amount of sand that came out.) Fill the system with hot water and Liquid Shout (yep, low-foaming detergent to clean any oils and help flush debris). Run the engine at a high idle for at least 10 minutes. Drain, then flush the system. Then refill with hot water, and flush again, and then again until it stops bubbling at the filler neck and it's coming out clear, then do it again once more for Papa. Again, use and check the catch bucket. Fill the system with hot water and 1 gallon of liquid Citric Acid. I got this from a local Snow-Cone supply shop, $13 a gallon. You can get it much cheaper over the internet, but I didn't want to wait. I also don't know how the acidity compares to the MB dry stuff, but this stuff was pretty potent (I got some on a cut finger and it burns like heck, and it seemed to generate a good deal of dirty coolant). Run the engine at a high idle for at least 10 minutes (I did 15 min at 1800 rpm). ** Do not let the Citric Acid get on anything you like. It's a mild acid, after all. You got it: Drain, then flush the system. Then refill with hot water, and flush again, and then again until its coming out clean, then do it again once more for your Best Friend. Again, use and check the catch bucket. The first drain I could really smell the acid smell, a lot like battery acid - and the catch bucket has a layer of dark garbage in the bottom, I'm letting it settle for some pics. After 2-3 flushes it ran nice and clear with no odor. I then refilled the system with just hot water and took the car for a drive up and down a local back road. With no t-stat the temp stayed right at 150*, fwiw. This weekend I'll pull the radiator and give it a rinse just in case, and while I'm changing the water pump I'll hose out the block through the t-stat housing and use some compressed air in the t-stat housing's bypass fitting to get some agitation going on, try to see if I can get any more sand out of the block. Then it'll be a fill with conventional Green coolant, and hopefully I'll be able to forget what overheating is like. Oh yeah, and I'm going to get a bit more OC about replacing coolant...
This is what I strained out of the catch bucket after the Citric Acid wash and flushes. 99% of this came out with the Acid.
I'd be interested in knowing how that stuff came to form in your cooling system. I've never had it in mine. As I stated before, getting really hot can do it. Do you think maybe it came from something else, like a long change interval? Just curious.
The Dexcool is specifically designed and formulated for aluminum parts such as radiators, intakes, heads etc. If we would have had dexcool back in 1961, 62 & 63 GM would never had stopped produceing the 215 motor. Personally if I was running a nice aluminum radiator im my auto i'd definately have dexcool in it! The green stuff is better off being used on brass radiators n such. Keith
The gelatinous chunks were from me not getting all of the old long-life dex-stuff out if the block before I put green in - they don't like each other.
Yup - and there's lots ( enough to make your head swim) of good info in the "Coolant" section of bobistheoilguy forums.
OK, so to follow up on this saga... Pulled the radiator and water pump, then gave both the radiator and the block a good rinsing out with a water hose (we've got pretty soft water around here), then got the TA water pump in and mounted with only breaking off one of the dinky 1/4-20 bolts, replaced the lower radiator hose with one that has an inner spring in it to keep the hose from collapsing, and reinstalled the radiator using some chunks of one of my son's old sneakers as bottom radiator mount/cushions. Used a good 180*F t-stat. Refilled the system with Zerex G-05 coolant based on recommendations from over at bobistheoilguy.com, cranked it up and got it all warm and burped. Using an infared temp gun, the coolant out of the engine was at 184, then around 140 after going across the radiator with the engine at a high idle (fast idle cam on carb). Everything seemed great. Took it for a drive today, and ended up giving rides up and down a local Ranch-to-Market road - ie several full-throttle blasts up to 70mph or so, several wot downshifting demonstrations, etc. Then me, my wife, my daughter, and our 2 nieces all piled in and we drove into Abilene (15 miles) for some Sonic milkshakes. Then back home, with some more downshifting fun along the way, mild traffic and several stop lights. All this in a 90* West Texas afternoon. Previously, the temps would have been climbing up slowly to around 215-220, and take forever to come back down on an open road with the fresh air. Today, the temp gauge NEVER budged off of 180 the ENTIRE time. Idling after a hard run? 180. Sitting at a light? 180. I could not be happier - between the acid cleanse and the TA Water Pump, I'm thinking that I can stop being paranoid about the temp gauge! Thanks, TA!
